So my neck is shimmed?

Bridgehouse

@ICBM is correct - the factory shim in my 64 versus the full length shim made no noticeable difference. I swapped mine for a full length purely for ease and aesthetics. 

I wouldn’t say that a shim is a bad thing in any way shape or from. Without it, my 64 would be unplayable.

ICBM

robgilmo said:

So that being said, why is it that body material is said to effect sound? Are we looking at bridge contact?

Because the body resonates and the bridge and the pickups are both mounted on it, so it colours the pickup sound slightly. (Very slightly, by some reckoning.)

Bridgehouse

ICBM said:

robgilmo said:

So that being said, why is it that body material is said to effect sound? Are we looking at bridge contact?

Because the body resonates and the bridge and the pickups are both mounted on it, so it colours the pickup sound slightly. (Very slightly, by some reckoning.)

And ultimately a guitar is a mix of a lot of different things that will actually affect output sound, including:

Scale length
String gauge and material
Nut
Bridge type and material
Saddle type and material
Neck joint type/through neck
Pickup type, magnet type, spacing and position
Body material type
Neck and fingerboard material
What you actually hit the strings with..
Electonics including caps, pots, wiring etc
And then of course ultimately what you choose to amplify it..

All these different elements can be varied and changed and will all have a subtle influence on how it sounds - some a lot more than others. 

robgilmo

I was wondering because my Strat has a floating trem at the moment and a shimmed neck but when I play it acoustically I can feel it resonating on my knee, even though its Ash body.

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

I was wondering because my Strat has a floating trem at the moment and a shimmed neck but when I play it acoustically I can feel it resonating on my knee, even though its Ash body.

Careful - your knee might be affecting the tone

WezV

Most electrics are built with very solid neck joins that have neck and body vibrating as one.  

Acoustics have much smaller neck joins ehich which interfere with the bodies vibrations a bit less..  with the violin family it’s even less.  The transfer from body to neck is minimal

interesting things happen when you couple the body and neck in different ways... like the framus we were discussing recently where work to solidify the join added a lot of unwanted vibration elsewhere.

i am liking Schorr guitars at the moment, where the neck connects with 3 points of contact like the nkforster acoustic above.  Fully adjustable too
http://schorrguitars.de/

robgilmo

Timbre , tone is all in the elbow.

Bridgehouse

WezV said:

Most electrics are built with very solid neck joins that have neck and body vibrating as one.  

Acoustics have much smaller neck joins ehich which interfere with the bodies vibrations a bit less..  with the violin family it’s even less.  The transfer from body to neck is minimal

interesting things happen when you couple the body and neck in different ways... like the framus we were discussing recently where work to solidify the join added a lot of unwanted vibration elsewhere.

i am liking Schorr guitars at the moment, where the neck connects with 3 points of contact like the nkforster acoustic above.  Fully adjustable too
http://schorrguitars.de/

I wonder how the arrangement on my fretless affects body vibration?

skullfunkerry

ICBM said:

robgilmo said:

Is there any truth in that a shim at the back of the heel can deform it?

Not that I’ve ever seen. It can indent the body though!

When I took my Performance apart for respraying, there was a piece of metal mesh in the pocket as a shim; you can see the pattern of it in the neck pocket and on the back of the neck - I'll post photos when I get the guitar back

ICBM

robgilmo said:

I was wondering because my Strat has a floating trem at the moment and a shimmed neck but when I play it acoustically I can feel it resonating on my knee, even though its Ash body.

Exactly. Personally I usually find that the most resonant and best-sounding set-up despite conventional wisdom saying it shouldn't be.

skullfunkerry said:

When I took my Performance apart for respraying, there was a piece of metal mesh in the pocket as a shim; you can see the pattern of it in the neck pocket and on the back of the neck - I'll post photos when I get the guitar back

The purpose of that is to lock the neck firmly in place and stop any movement in the neck pocket. Try to put the mesh back exactly where it was so it doesn't make a new impression.

robgilmo said:

Timbre , tone is all in the elbow.

Well that's me buggered then... unless metal inserts sound better than bone.

Bridgehouse

robgilmo said:

Timbre , tone is all in the elbow.

Dare you to post a thread entitled “Knee Timbre: how do I improve it?”

WezV

Bridgehouse said:

WezV said:

Most electrics are built with very solid neck joins that have neck and body vibrating as one.  

Acoustics have much smaller neck joins ehich which interfere with the bodies vibrations a bit less..  with the violin family it’s even less.  The transfer from body to neck is minimal

interesting things happen when you couple the body and neck in different ways... like the framus we were discussing recently where work to solidify the join added a lot of unwanted vibration elsewhere.

i am liking Schorr guitars at the moment, where the neck connects with 3 points of contact like the nkforster acoustic above.  Fully adjustable too
http://schorrguitars.de/

I wonder how the arrangement on my fretless affects body vibration?

The through neck one?  It’s about as coupled as a body and neck can get.

Bridgehouse

WezV said:

Bridgehouse said:

WezV said:

Most electrics are built with very solid neck joins that have neck and body vibrating as one.  

Acoustics have much smaller neck joins ehich which interfere with the bodies vibrations a bit less..  with the violin family it’s even less.  The transfer from body to neck is minimal

interesting things happen when you couple the body and neck in different ways... like the framus we were discussing recently where work to solidify the join added a lot of unwanted vibration elsewhere.

i am liking Schorr guitars at the moment, where the neck connects with 3 points of contact like the nkforster acoustic above.  Fully adjustable too
http://schorrguitars.de/

I wonder how the arrangement on my fretless affects body vibration?

The through neck one?  It’s about as coupled as a body and neck can get.

It’s through neck, but for me the interesting difference is the fact that the bridge (what there is of one) is actually the fingerboard - the saddles rest in slots cut into the fingerboard itself, which is then mounted onto the through neck. The strings themselves are anchored into a carbon anchor plate at the back (which is attached to the body)

robgilmo

Bridgehouse said:

robgilmo said:

Timbre , tone is all in the elbow.

Dare you to post a thread entitled “Knee Timbre: how do I improve it?”

Might be an interesting topic, and Jameson made me do it.

skullfunkerry

ICBM said:

skullfunkerry said:

When I took my Performance apart for respraying, there was a piece of metal mesh in the pocket as a shim; you can see the pattern of it in the neck pocket and on the back of the neck - I'll post photos when I get the guitar back

The purpose of that is to lock the neck firmly in place and stop any movement in the neck pocket. Try to put the mesh back exactly where it was so it doesn't make a new impression.

I won't be putting it back together, @lamf68 will be after he's resprayed it. I'll let him know - thanks!

robgilmo

Thinking about this, would a shim improve the set up? My shimmed strat has a lovely low action and plays beautifully, my Tele does not, I cannot get the action down that low without it buzzing, if I brought the fretboard up at the heel to meet the strings would this enable me to get a lower , more playable action? 

gringopig

.

ICBM

robgilmo said:

Thinking about this, would a shim improve the set up? My shimmed strat has a lovely low action and plays beautifully, my Tele does not, I cannot get the action down that low without it buzzing, if I brought the fretboard up at the heel to meet the strings would this enable me to get a lower , more playable action? 

No, probably not. If it’s buzzing st the top of the neck you need to increase the separation of the strings and the frets. Usually that will mean straightening the neck and raising the bridge.

gringopig said:

I've also seen built in neck angles on a Fano JM6 which has the neck pocket angled to achieve the best neck angle but this is more expensive to achieve as it is a hand created operation for each guitar.

You mean like 70s Japanese junk Les Paul copies were done?

It can be done very easily and more accurately by machine.

thegummy

Don't Fenders have that little screw thing that negates the need for shims?

skunkwerx

thegummy said:

Don't Fenders have that little screw thing that negates the need for shims?

Ah the Micro tilt mehanisms. Not all do though.