Feel there's not enough sustain in my Les Paul

FelineGuitars

Things that I like to do to enhance Les Paul sustain and tone

Lightweight aluminium tailpiece with locking studs

Earvana nut (seems to have some sustain effect as well as the in tune-ness - maybe because of reduced out of tune harmonic content)

As already said - slightly more relief  than some might go for and not too low an action 

OilCityPickups

Funkfingers said:

For anyone with healthy hearing, the pickups can sound a little bit screechy. 

Bit like my first wife then :-)

thegummy

Just out of interest, how long does it actually sustain for? Like, actually short enough to stop before normal notes or over or is it only a problem for whole bar notes etc.?

Funkfingers

thegummy said:

Just out of interest, how long does it actually sustain for? 

FarleyUK

Thanks very much for all the advice - so, I've just setup both Les Pauls (yes, Gibson Les Pauls) with:

- Not such straight necks
- Slightly higher action (actually found the second guitar sounded a lot 'deader' due to the action
- String-through on the tailpieces, both about 1/4" off the body

They both seem to play and sound much better - might just be wishful thinking, but I'm liking how it feels!

ICBM

FarleyUK said:

- String-through on the tailpieces, both about 1/4" off the body

Can you get the tailpieces any lower without the strings pressing on the back edge of the bridges? (It's OK for the top E especially to just touch.)

Don't adjust them with the strings tuned up...

thegummy

Funkfingers said:

thegummy said:

Just out of interest, how long does it actually sustain for? 

*Spinal tap clip*

lol that's exactly what I think of when people talk about sustain

To be honest, I don't know if I remember ever finding the note ringing out before I wanted it to end on any guitar. If it did I'd just use more compression.

FarleyUK

ICBM said:

FarleyUK said:

- String-through on the tailpieces, both about 1/4" off the body

Can you get the tailpieces any lower without the strings pressing on the back edge of the bridges? (It's OK for the top E especially to just touch.)

Don't adjust them with the strings tuned up...

Yep - just got it down to about 1/12".

John_P

When you describe the pickup heights, do you mean the distance from the strings?  2mm away sounds very close imo and could be the magnets are damping the vibrations.

clarkefan

Another thought, you might want to check the tailpiece bolts, how deep they go into the body.  Sometimes Gibson use short bolts, the 50s originals were quite deep into the body.  

Sorry I can't be more specific, I can't remember the measurements. 

pintspiller

One piece bridge and stop piece more sustaining?

Voxman

I just don't get top wrapping. I can't help feel this is snake oil. 

hyperben

Voxman said:

I just don't get top wrapping. I can't help feel this is snake oil. 

Me too. Tried it and thought it was pointless and sounded/played better not top wrapped.

rico

Voxman said:

I just don't get top wrapping. I can't help feel this is snake oil. 

It's relatively simple physics. There is lots of information and studies/test floating around the web.

hyperben

rico said:

Voxman said:

I just don't get top wrapping. I can't help feel this is snake oil. 

It's relatively simple physics. There is lots of information and studies/test floating around the web.

Showing what exactly?

Jonathanthomas83

Some people like it, some don't. I don't get the big deal. One thing that pisses me off is that people will say it's wrong and causes a loss of tone and sustain, that simply doesn't ring true with my experiences. I top wrapped the Standard to get the tail piece closer to the body, for no other reason. It worked for me, YMMV. My R8 doesnt need top wrapping, so I'll keep it that way. To each their own and all that.

rico

@hyperben there was an interesting experiment that I read and I think I posted a link to ages ago but I can't find it for love nor money. I found another link though http://www.dylanmckerchie.com/string-tension-explained-top-wrap-bonus-footage/ ;

TL;DR summary - the increased string length and reduced downward pressure on the bridge means that string bending is slightly easier which has the perceived effect of lower tension. Of course tension cannot change (you'd need to change the gauge of string or change the scale length or the note you're tuned to)

prlgmnr

rico said:

It's relatively simple physics. There is lots of information and studies/test floating around the web.

hyperben said:

Showing what exactly?

This:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Some people like it, some don't.

hyperben

rico said:

@hyperben there was an interesting experiment that I read and I think I posted a link to ages ago but I can't find it for love nor money. I found another link though http://www.dylanmckerchie.com/string-tension-explained-top-wrap-bonus-footage/ ;

TL;DR summary - the increased string length and reduced downward pressure on the bridge means that string bending is slightly easier which has the perceived effect of lower tension. Of course tension cannot change (you'd need to change the gauge of string or change the scale length or the note you're tuned to)

Ah ok. Yes I have experienced the lower string tension with top wrapping before (because the break angle is shallower). But I also got this with raising the tailpiece, which I found didn’t impact the tone or sustain for the small amount I needed to raise it. Like people always say, YMMV. When I tried it before I found the guitar did play and sound better with a slightly raised tailpiece rather than top wrapping achieving the same string tension (when bending strings).

ICBM

It *changes* the tone and sustain, and the feel when bending notes. Some people think for the better, some for the worse, but it does change it. I am in the 'worse' camp on all counts but I know someone, a very good player, who has guitars set up both ways because he has more than one Les Paul and likes the differences. Having done his top-wrap one for him and compared it to his other ones I'm certain it did change the tone and the sustain noticeably.

For some reason it doesn't seem to sound the same to me as raising the tailpiece to the same string height while stringing through normally, even though it theoretically 'should' - but very hard to prove one way or the other. One thing is for sure, it does chew up the back edge of the tailpiece and the plating on top, especially on an aluminium one. Whether this matters to you is also a personal thing. And I think it looks stupid . But Marc Bolan and Duane Allman did it - for different reasons - so what do I know?

Of course, one other reason is that Gibson don't seem to be able to consistently build Les Pauls with a properly low neck angle, so on some of them you can't have the tailpiece screwed down fully without either top-wrapping or the strings fouling the back of the bridge. Some people think screwing it down tight and top-wrapping sounds better than having it raised up and strung through. If that's the only choice then I would simply find a different Les Paul...