Feel there's not enough sustain in my Les Paul

fendergibson

ICBM said:

It *changes* the tone and sustain, and the feel when bending notes. Some people think for the better, some for the worse, but it does change it. I am in the 'worse' camp on all counts but I know someone, a very good player, who has guitars set up both ways because he has more than one Les Paul and likes the differences. Having done his top-wrap one for him and compared it to his other ones I'm certain it did change the tone and the sustain noticeably.

For some reason it doesn't seem to sound the same to me as raising the tailpiece to the same string height while stringing through normally, even though it theoretically 'should' - but very hard to prove one way or the other. One thing is for sure, it does chew up the back edge of the tailpiece and the plating on top, especially on an aluminium one. Whether this matters to you is also a personal thing. And I think it looks stupid . But Marc Bolan and Duane Allman did it - for different reasons - so what do I know?

Of course, one other reason is that Gibson don't seem to be able to consistently build Les Pauls with a properly low neck angle, so on some of them you can't have the tailpiece screwed down fully without either top-wrapping or the strings fouling the back of the bridge. Some people think screwing it down tight and top-wrapping sounds better than having it raised up and strung through. If that's the only choice then I would simply find a different Les Paul...

Excellent info. Font of Knowledge. I’m glad you take the time to write ICBM. 

Also glad l am a strat man who can shim a neck easily and make it right. 

Set neck buyers beware 

FarleyUK

Thanks all - so I'm clear, is it generally better to have the tailpiece as close to the body as you can, or higher up...? I'd imagine the higher the better as less chance of breakage?

richardhomer

FarleyUK said:

Thanks all - so I'm clear, is it generally better to have the tailpiece as close to the body as you can, or higher up...? I'd imagine the higher the better as less chance of breakage?

String breakage is only an issue if the neck angle is such that the strings foul the rear edge of the bridge with the Stop Tail screwed down. If this is the case, it should be set high enough to allow the strings to clear the rear of the bridge.

ICBM

FarleyUK said:

Thanks all - so I'm clear, is it generally better to have the tailpiece as close to the body as you can, or higher up...? I'd imagine the higher the better as less chance of breakage?

In my opinion, as low as possible and preferably fully tightened down onto the body. In my opinion they just sound best like that.

If that can't be achieved without the strings pressing on the back of the bridge (the top E is allowed to touch, any more than that is a sign that it's too much) or top-wrapping, then the guitar was built with too steep a neck angle and I wouldn't buy it. To me it doesn't just make it impossible to set up how I would like it - I don't like the feel of the neck being angled that steeply back and I think it alters the balance, makes the guitar feel heavier than it really is, causes tuning problems and steals from the poor.

Just a personal thing - plenty of people are happy with them set higher or actually prefer them like that.

For the tuning problems I think it's because the bridge posts can flex more when they're set too high.

Lestratcaster

Disconnect tone pot

ESBlonde

Similar to the suggestion by @clarkefan about that time (2008) Gibson had deep drilled holes and shortish bridge pins. Look up the mapleflame mod on the Las Paul forum. Essentially trace the pins with stainless steel bolts that bottom out in the holes drilled in the body and cut off to height. Cost is pennies and results are varied but reversible.

TA22GT

@FarleyUK ; and @ ICBM

This is what ICBM means about neck angle. This guitar is based on the original 59 neck angle and has a very flat neck rake so the bridge sits low to the body. It means the tailpiece can go all the way down to the body and yet the strings don't touch the bridge.
They steepened the angle later because if you don't get it spot on there is no room for error and if you are a couple of degrees too shallow the strings would hit the pickup covers! 

One nice side effect with a shallow neck angle is that the guitar is very comfortable to play and doesn't rake away from your body.
 

underdog

If nothing else stop top wrapping because it looks terrible

Jonathanthomas83

TA22GT said:
They steepened the angle later because if you don't get it spot on there is no room for error and if you are a couple of degrees too shallow the strings would hit the pickup covers!

If that's true, then that is just plain lazy! The neck angle thing annoys me immensely. The lovely customs with a vintage correct angle (tailpiece to the body included) is proof they can do it "right".

FarleyUK

This is how low I've managed to get it. Really looking how it feels and sounds now

fendergibson

FarleyUK said:

This is how low I've managed to get it. Really looking how it feels and sounds now

So have you given the neck more relief too ? 

FarleyUK

fendergibson said:

FarleyUK said:

This is how low I've managed to get it. Really looking how it feels and sounds now

So have you given the neck more relief too ? 

Yep, just a smidge.

Humbucked

Perhaps, you might want to take a look at at some PRS Singlecut models. Never encountered such problems with them.

Rocker

Why not buy a packet of flat washers, fit them under the tailpiece which is at the height you like and tighten down the bolts?