Have modellers got too complicated?

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

I still use my old POD 2 which is a doddle to use. I still think, as does Lee Anderton, that there's money in a POD style unit with a few amps and effects that's easy to use.

Like the HX Stomp? 

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

I still use my old POD 2 which is a doddle to use. I still think, as does Lee Anderton, that there's money in a POD style unit with a few amps and effects that's easy to use.

Like the HX Stomp? 

Lee Anderton wasn't convinced about the HX Stomp and a US friend of mine who got one two weeks ago likes the tones but says it's not an easy unit to use ... the HX Stomp is not a POD 2 style unit in terms of ease of use. It has all the amps and FX found in the bigger units and the same workflow in a small package.

Musicman20

My concern with the Stomp is the menu screen....until I try one out I'm not convinced it is that easy.

Fretwired

Musicman20 said:

My concern with the Stomp is the menu screen....until I try one out I'm not convinced it is that easy.

That's what my US friend said .. you can use editing software but that defeats the purpose of a stomp box pedal in my opinion.

He'll post a YouTube review in due course ... I'll post the link here.

TimmyO

Fretwired said:

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

I still use my old POD 2 which is a doddle to use. I still think, as does Lee Anderton, that there's money in a POD style unit with a few amps and effects that's easy to use.

Like the HX Stomp? 

Lee Anderton wasn't convinced about the HX Stomp and a US friend of mine who got one two weeks ago likes the tones but says it's not an easy unit to use ... the HX Stomp is not a POD 2 style unit in terms of ease of use. It has all the amps and FX found in the bigger units and the same workflow in a small package.

I really like Lee (well, what I see online) but found that video a bit cringey - it was like we was either paying no attention to what was being said or had already decided it wasn't to his liking - found it odd 

goldtop

When an amp modeller shows you a Champ and gives you gain, treble, middle, bass and master controls, even before offering you bias/sag/fries with that, then yes modellers have got too complicated.

They've made the modelled amp harder to dial in than the real amp, in the mistaken belief that more options is always good.

TimmyO

Flip side: they are giving you consistent controls to use across a variety of different sounding models. 

They'll

Never make everyone happy 

Did you ever try to edit a patch on a Quadraverb? We hare in an ease of use heaven now! 

BintyTwanger77

This whole battle between the need for simplicity and the need for options basically fuelled my GAS/gear-flipping.

Thanks to a need to sort out my finances, I’ve had an excuse to sell basically everything apart from my acoustic and start again when the ££ situation has improved.

I’m looking forward to a bit of doing more with less for a change: more time to focus on technique than tweaking dials (though the latter is great and looking forward to doing that again soon).

Fretwired

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

I still use my old POD 2 which is a doddle to use. I still think, as does Lee Anderton, that there's money in a POD style unit with a few amps and effects that's easy to use.

Like the HX Stomp? 

Lee Anderton wasn't convinced about the HX Stomp and a US friend of mine who got one two weeks ago likes the tones but says it's not an easy unit to use ... the HX Stomp is not a POD 2 style unit in terms of ease of use. It has all the amps and FX found in the bigger units and the same workflow in a small package.

I really like Lee (well, what I see online) but found that video a bit cringey - it was like we was either paying no attention to what was being said or had already decided it wasn't to his liking - found it odd 

There's another video of him with Chappers and they're looking at modelling. He bought an old POD 2 on eBay and they put it up against some newer stuff. Obviously the modelling is dated but what they both agreed was the POD 2 was easy to use and get a decent tone for the home hobbyist. Lee said he though Line 6 should think of having something simpler like the old POD 2.

Line 6 would probably say it wouldn't sell as people like lots of options, but the number of high-end modellers being sold second hand is testament to the fact that some people find them difficult and overkill.

I quite like the Amplitube software - I have the Fender 2 pack which has a number of accurately modelled amps. Fender endorse the pack so you know they are good. Each amp looks as it should and it's easy to get a great tone. The amps also look cool and you can have a new or battered amp look .. it doesn't come simpler. You can't really gig with Amplitube (which is where the Helix scores).

monquixote

I went around a lot of circles trying to find something that would work for me because I hate fiddling about and tweaking, but I was in a band that was all in ear and modelling makes so much more sense in that context.

AxeFX was for me just like doing maths homework. It sounded good, but I hated using it.

The Amplifire stuff was as others have said possible to get a good sound, but only through laptop editing which was painful and then tweaking live was impossible unless you took a laptop to a gig which for me is a no go.

I never gigged a Helix, but I've used one a few times and they seem like a better solution, but ultimately it's just easier maths homework.

The simpler stuff exists in the form of Katana, HD100, Blues Cube, etc, but you have to accept that they aren't flexible and there comes a point where you think maybe just use an HRD.

UnclePsychosis

goldtop said:

When an amp modeller shows you a Champ and gives you gain, treble, middle, bass and master controls, even before offering you bias/sag/fries with that, then yes modellers have got too complicated.

---gain, treble, middle, bass, and master controls are of course famous for being too complex for guitarists.

guitarfishbay

Well if you turn mids to 10 that solves that issue. Guitar is a midrange instrument so anything less than 10 is clearly worse.

Kind of like tone controls really. Who would voluntarily choose to have less tone? Not me

gearaddict

I think for some people they are too complicated...or maybe not complicated but too flexible. For some people, it is hard to see all the options and just ignore them, so you just end up lost in a maze of tweakery. I have been getting on much better with the old GSP1101 partly because it doesn't have as many options. It has a list of stock cabs but no options for mics or mic placement, so you just scroll through the list and pick one. Similarly, there is a low pass filter for the cabs but it is either on or off - you can't change the parameters. Some people would find that frustratingly limiting but I am just glad I don't have to think about it!

goldtop

UnclePsychosis said:

goldtop said:

When an amp modeller shows you a Champ and gives you gain, treble, middle, bass and master controls, even before offering you bias/sag/fries with that, then yes modellers have got too complicated.

---gain, treble, middle, bass, and master controls are of course famous for being too complex for guitarists.

Cheeky fecker - you deleted the bit that explained my point!

>Kind of like tone controls really. Who would voluntarily choose to have less tone? Not me

Um... the number of tone controls does not equal tone. This should be clear by now?

As to Line6 having a simpler knobby modeller - they've got one. It's called the THR (from the parent company).

TTBZ

Moving away from the Helix interface would be a step backwards. It's so easy to use, way better than anything else on the market that I've seen or tried.

tone1

For me Modellers and computer based gear just takes me away from what I  Iove about guitars....When I switch a valve amp on it takes me away from all the modern life rubbish of computers and iPhones and ITunes (well you get the idea) I’m not saying it has to be all analogue, but as close to it as I can be is where I’m happiest. Yes I haven’t got 100 amp models and various routing options at my command, just a nice clean with Reverb, some dirt, and a bit more dirt if required.....don’t get me wrong, I’ve read the Fractal/Kemper/Helix threads and almost pulled the trigger on one, but then I come to my senses. 

Lebarque

tone1 said:

For me Modellers and computer based gear just takes me away from what I  Iove about guitars....When I switch a valve amp on it takes me away from all the modern life rubbish of computers and iPhones and ITunes (well you get the idea) I’m not saying it has to all analogue, but as close to it as I can be is where I’m happiest. Yes I haven’t got 100 amp models and various routing options at my command, just a nice clean with Reverb, some dirt, and a bit more dirt if required.....don’t get me wrong, I’ve read the Fractal/Kemper/Helix threads and almost pulled the trigger on one, but then I come to my senses. 

This

dindude

Just release the Yamaha THR MkII with same format but Helix amp models - simple, a great marketing link, and fixes the issue that the THR’s sound pretty pants (I think I’m in the minority’s here).

If only Yamaha didn’t have a product life cycle of 4 decades, this could work.

Grumpyrocker

TimmyO said:

I really like Lee (well, what I see online) but found that video a bit cringey - it was like we was either paying no attention to what was being said or had already decided it wasn't to his liking - found it odd 

Lee did seem a bit out of sorts and argumentative in that video. I thought it was unusual for him.  Maybe he was having a bad day.

John_A

Lebarque said:

tone1 said:

For me Modellers and computer based gear just takes me away from what I  Iove about guitars....When I switch a valve amp on it takes me away from all the modern life rubbish of computers and iPhones and ITunes (well you get the idea) I’m not saying it has to all analogue, but as close to it as I can be is where I’m happiest. Yes I haven’t got 100 amp models and various routing options at my command, just a nice clean with Reverb, some dirt, and a bit more dirt if required.....don’t get me wrong, I’ve read the Fractal/Kemper/Helix threads and almost pulled the trigger on one, but then I come to my senses. 

This

In my experience not this at all.  My old rig was a JTM45 and about 8 pedals, something that had taken years to get to the point I was really happy with it.  I replicated that set-up in Helix within a day of buying it to the point it sounded every bit as good in a live setting.  

The simplicity of of being able to try stuff like slotting a space echo in the chain is amazing, much easier than buying a real one and using it on 3 songs

I spend more time just plugging in and playing guitar with my Helix than I’ve done in years of owning a real amp