String trees - the rules?

Wolfetone

I have a strange buzz from the D string on my Strat which I narrowed down to the shallow angle of the string to the tuner. An additional string tree to pull down the D and the G and increase the break angle would sort the problem.

Before I go drilling and adding a tree, what are the rules with regards to placement and height? I notice that most Strats have one on the B and E but some also have a tree where I intend to place mine. Is there a reason why some do and some don't? Is it something that a low string action needs?

scrumhalf

When I had my Strat set up by LA Guitars I noticed that he didn't bother putting the strings under the string trees. His rationale was that it created extra sticking points for the strings. I use 9s, I don't know if that would apply to heavier gauges.

Wolfetone

scrumhalf said:

When I had my Strat set up by LA Guitars I noticed that he didn't bother putting the strings under the string trees. His rationale was that it created extra sticking points for the strings. I use 9s, I don't know if that would apply to heavier gauges.

My only assumption is that break angle is critical to maintain string pressure at the nut (low break angles = string buzz). If you have too shallow a break angle as a consequence of a low action and a horizontal head stock, the break angle needs to be artificially increased with a tree. I also assume that a wound string has a higher friction coefficient and is better avoided if possible. The coefficient increases with angle and that's why the trees are spaced as much upwards as is is necessary to eliminate the buzz.

Thinking about it, I have possibly answered my own question but, can anyone ad anything else?  

ArchtopDave

I assume that you've found that pushing down on the string over the Headstock area removes the buzz. I do not know whether there's any exact science as to whether a string tree is needed, or not. I had this discussion in regard to a guitar that I had made recently. Part of the discussion centred around how hard I played. I play relatively lightly, and testing the guitar out showed that, with my style of playing, a string tree was unnecessary.

Wolfetone

ArchtopDave said:

I assume that you've found that pushing down on the string over the Headstock area removes the buzz. I do not know whether there's any exact science as to whether a string tree is needed, or not. I had this discussion in regard to a guitar that I had made recently. Part of the discussion centred around how hard I played. I play relatively lightly, and testing the guitar out showed that, with my style of playing, a string tree was unnecessary.

Yes, light pressure removes the buzz. It is partially my fault as the string groove angle is very slightly too pronounced but, if you saw how shallow the angle is, it's a difficult job to get the angle of the groove to be in between the angle at the entrance and the exit to the nut.

thermionic

Most modern Strats have two trees, the ones that don't tend to be vintage reissues of one type or other.

You could also look into staggered tuners if you don't want to drill the headstock... or is it only the B & E that have lower posts on those sets?

ESBlonde

On my 70s strat I only use the string trees on the E & B strings, the G and D remains unused. If the nut slots are properly cut it's not generally a problem, never has been for me even in the punk years!

Poorly cut slots or being too deep etc. can cause buzzes and dead open notes.

ArchtopDave

At the end of the day, if a string tree cures the problem, then you get the result you need. I have no experience on positioning one, but again a bit of testing before you use a drill should tell you where to position it.

thegummy

thermionic said:

Most modern Strats have two trees, the ones that don't tend to be vintage reissues of one type or other.

You could also look into staggered tuners if you don't want to drill the headstock... or is it only the B & E that have lower posts on those sets?

The player series and American pro don't have 2 string trees, neither did the standard or American standard.

I looked on the website and out of the 10 I looked at (specifically avoiding vintage ones) only 1 had 2 string trees - the American Special.

thegummy

IIRC, not all Strats would need a string tree to not buzz but a lot would and some may need two.

I think it's probably cheaper to put one on them all than to individually test if each one needs it, hence some people getting away with taking it off.

I would imagine putting it in the spot you pressed down on the strings to alleviate the buzzing would be a good bet.

John_A

It could just be the angle of the nut slot isn't right

Wolfetone

thegummy said:

IIRC, not all Strats would need a string tree to not buzz but a lot would and some may need two.

I think it's probably cheaper to put one on them all than to individually test if each one needs it, hence some people getting away with taking it off.

I would imagine putting it in the spot you pressed down on the strings to alleviate the buzzing would be a good bet.

The Strats with two always have the D & G tree closer to the nut. I've ordered a new pair with risers and that should sort things.

ICBM

Try winding the string further down the post when you restring - it usually only takes a tiny bit. Any risk of additional slippage there will be less than the risk of snagging under the string tree anyway.

If it's not that, have another go at the nut slot if it's not already as low as it can be. All you need to do is make sure the file splits the difference of the angle between the G and A strings on both side of the nut.

Wolfetone

ICBM said:

Try winding the string further down the post when you restring - it usually only takes a tiny bit. Any risk of additional slippage there will be less than the risk of snagging under the string tree anyway.

If it's not that, have another go at the nut slot if it's not already as low as it can be. All you need to do is make sure the file splits the difference of the angle between the G and A strings on both side of the nut.

It's as low as it can be. Any lower and it risks fret rattle.

ICBM

Wolfetone said:

It's as low as it can be. Any lower and it risks fret rattle.

It's probably worth filling it - superglue and paper is an accepted fix - and then re-filing it, making sure it's a shallower angle.

thegummy

John_A said:

It could just be the angle of the nut slot isn't right

Depending on available funds, it might be a good idea to take it to a repairman and tell him what the problem is and he should be able to let you know if it's fixable without an additional string tree.

The string tree is an additional friction point for the string so it would be beneficial to avoid adding another one if it was possible to fix the problem another way.

Wolfetone

As it happens, I didn't cut the  slot at the wrong angle.....it was cut at the correct angle.

....can anyone guess what the mistake was???

Wolfetone

I slackened all the strings the other day to remove the scratch plate.  The strings must have hopped over and ended up  the post instead of down. Now there's a lesson!

FelineGuitars

Some strats and teles are made from a thicker piece of wood that has a bigger "scoop" down to the face of the headstock 

This will give better break angle - really short tuner posts may do the same
Too low a break angle is a cause of a lot of problems- you often hear the string behind the nut ringing when you plkay and it's distracting. A second string tree is often the best solution.

meltedbuzzbox

Wrong string?

Wolfetone

meltedbuzzbox said:

Wrong string?

No, the problem was the G. See how the string high up the post flattens the angle.