Helix - Kemper - Axe Fx II XL+ JCM 800 Comparison

relic245

I prefer 2, 3 then 1 but I think that is based as much on the eq as the tone. 

Cirrus

These kind of tests are hard because depending on what frame of mind you're in, the environment and the speakers you're listening through, you might decide that the dull one is great and bright one is way too bright or that the bright one's just right and the dull one is way too dull. The order you listen to them in makes a difference too. Seriously, go get a few minutes of silence, then come back and listen to 1 then 2. 2 seems way too bright. Now go get your ears rested for 5 mins, come back and listen to 2 then 1. 1 sounds dull.

In fact, my guess. was that 1 was the helix, because I thought the default  cab/speaker modelling with quite harsh top end might have led the OP to over-compensate with a LP filter. And I guessed that 2 was the Kemper, because I assumed it'd be closest to a real amp and real amps are usually brighter and fizzer than one would assume, in isolation.

So, I was totally wrong, but maybe I can get a couple of points for showing my working... 

gearaddict

Cirrus said:

These kind of tests are hard because depending on what frame of mind you're in, the environment and the speakers you're listening through, you might decide that the dull one is great and bright one is way too bright or that the bright one's just right and the dull one is way too dull. The order you listen to them in makes a difference too. Seriously, go get a few minutes of silence, then come back and listen to 1 then 2. 2 seems way too bright. Now go get your ears rested for 5 mins, come back and listen to 2 then 1. 1 sounds dull.

In fact, my guess. was that 1 was the helix, because I thought the default  cab/speaker modelling with quite harsh top end might have led the OP to over-compensate with a LP filter. And I guessed that 2 was the Kemper, because I assumed it'd be closest to a real amp and real amps are usually brighter and fizzer than one would assume, in isolation.

So, I was totally wrong, but maybe I can get a couple of points for showing my working... 

Are you mixing up 1 & 2? 1 sounds much brighter to me.

Cirrus

No, but this does illustrate a point about how subjective it is.

1 has a lot more low mids, much less upper mids, and some fairly non-offensive hissy harmonics going on up top.

2 doesn't have so much of those hissy harmonics up top, but it's got a lot less lower mids and a lot more upper mids. In a mix, I'm fairly sure the hissy harmonics would get lost in the cymbals and you'd end up with the extra upper midrange in 2 sounding way brighter.

It's all about the balance throughout the frequency range.

Jonathanthomas83

Without looking at replies, just in case the reveal has happened -

1. Kemper 2. Helix 3. Axe FX

And I prefer number 1.

EDIT: OK, I'm glad I didn't read the replies. Pretty happy with my choices! :-)

Freebird

My JCM 800 tones don't sound like any of these.

Fiftyshadesofjay

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Without looking at replies, just in case the reveal has happened -

1. Kemper 2. Helix 3. Axe FX

And I prefer number 1.

EDIT: OK, I'm glad I didn't read the replies. Pretty happy with my choices! :-)

Ha, well done! What led you to that conclusion? 

Jonathanthomas83

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Without looking at replies, just in case the reveal has happened -

1. Kemper 2. Helix 3. Axe FX

And I prefer number 1.

EDIT: OK, I'm glad I didn't read the replies. Pretty happy with my choices! :-)

Ha, well done! What led you to that conclusion? 

Thanks fella. Pretty much what I've been saying on here and on my blog for the past few months...I think the Kemper sounds more like a real amp than any of the others. So I simply listened to which I thought sounded closest to a real amp.

Sorry, that'll wind a few up, but it's my opinion.

• Helix doesn't sound as good as the others - subjective, but my opinion.
• Axe FX is almost there but not quite - subjective, but my opinion. In fact, before I got the Kemper, I was more than happy with the Axe FX. I bought the Axe FX III after I had my Kemper and ended up sending it back to keep the Kemper in preference.
• And you all know my thoughts on the Kemper.

gearaddict

Freebird said:

My JCM 800 tones don't sound like any of these.

Your amp is wrong then.

Fiftyshadesofjay

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Without looking at replies, just in case the reveal has happened -

1. Kemper 2. Helix 3. Axe FX

And I prefer number 1.

EDIT: OK, I'm glad I didn't read the replies. Pretty happy with my choices! :-)

Ha, well done! What led you to that conclusion? 

Thanks fella. Pretty much what I've been saying on here and on my blog for the past few months...I think the Kemper sounds more like a real amp than any of the others. So I simply listened to which I thought sounded closest to a real amp.

Sorry, that'll wind a few up, but it's my opinion.

• Helix doesn't sound as good as the others - subjective, but my opinion.
• Axe FX is almost there but not quite - subjective, but my opinion. In fact, before I got the Kemper, I was more than happy with the Axe FX. I bought the Axe FX III after I had my Kemper and ended up sending it back to keep the Kemper in preference.
• And you all know my thoughts on the Kemper.

Thanks, makes perfect sense. As you say, the Helix stands out as being quite a bit worse than the other two. It’s subjective obviously but the Kemper and Axe tones are perfectly useable to me, I would not be happy with the Helix. 

I’m mainly a Kemper user but I’m going to give the Axe Fx a run at a gig Saturday I think. In my opinion if you’re talking purely the raw amp tone then Kemper is fantastic but the Axe has a lot more going for it in other areas, effects, versatility, hardware etc. 

Jonathanthomas83

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

but the Axe has a lot more going for it in other areas, effects, versatility, hardware etc.

How do you mean 'versatility' and 'hardware', fella?

I can't argue with the FX on the Fractal, they're awesome! Though I prefer the delays on the Kemper.

Fiftyshadesofjay

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

but the Axe has a lot more going for it in other areas, effects, versatility, hardware etc.

How do you mean 'versatility' and 'hardware', fella?

I can't argue with the FX on the Fractal, they're awesome! Though I prefer the delays on the Kemper.

I really like the routing and you can do many more interesting things such as dual amps, parallel effects etc. You can definitely get some more exotic tones.

Hardware wise I feel you’re getting a better deal with Fractal, it’s a more robust unit, has an audio interface plus you get the editor etc. I’ve got a feeling the input and outputs are higher quality as well judging by the noise floor and depth of tone, that part may well be in my head though. 

I like the MFC better than Kemper remote, or at least the silent switches.

Freebird

Fiftyshadesofjay said:
In my opinion if you’re talking purely the raw amp tone then Kemper is fantastic but the Axe has a lot more going for it in other areas, effects, versatility, hardware etc. 

Kemper + FX8 is a decent combo.

Jonathanthomas83

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

but the Axe has a lot more going for it in other areas, effects, versatility, hardware etc.

How do you mean 'versatility' and 'hardware', fella?

I can't argue with the FX on the Fractal, they're awesome! Though I prefer the delays on the Kemper.

I really like the routing and you can do many more interesting things such as dual amps, parallel effects etc. You can definitely get some more exotic tones.

Hardware wise I feel you’re getting a better deal with Fractal, it’s a more robust unit, has an audio interface plus you get the editor etc. I’ve got a feeling the input and outputs are higher quality as well judging by the noise floor and depth of tone, that part may well be in my head though. 

I like the MFC better than Kemper remote, or at least the silent switches.

I can't argue with much of that, mate. I miss some of the things I had with the Fractal. I do love the gate on the Kemper though, one of a few things which would make me think twice about going back.

I like that the MFC was super customisable and had loads of switches to assign things too. And I also like that everything can be assigned to an Expression pedal, I miss that a lot.

gearaddict

Apparently Chris Robertson used the helix for all the guitars on the last Black Stone Cherry album. Pretty impressive.

Freebird

Jonathanthomas83 said:
I like that the MFC was super customisable and had loads of switches to assign things too. And I also like that everything can be assigned to an Expression pedal, I miss that a lot.

I mostly use the FX8 for effects via 4CM, but I do mix 'n match some fx with the Kemper fx, particularly delay (and hopefully the new reverbs!). You can use it to change Kemper amp profiles, and also do some tap dancing. Get one if the price is right, you can always sell it again!  

Jonathanthomas83

Haha, are you still banging that drum, @freebird? I genuinely don't want an FX8, honest!

Freebird

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Haha, are you still banging that drum, @freebird? I genuinely don't want an FX8, honest!

It's a good drum to bang, now that the used prices have come down a bit. You also have more parameters to play with if you want to go off-piste, but you probably know a lot more about the Fractal fx blocks than I do. 

Jonathanthomas83

:-)

gibsongretschfan

gearaddict said:

Apparently Chris Robertson used the helix for all the guitars on the last Black Stone Cherry album. Pretty impressive.

Tell him it doesn't sound like a real amp because Jonathan Thomas said so in his blog