Helix - Kemper - Axe Fx II XL+ JCM 800 Comparison

Jonathanthomas83

Good old @gibsongretschfan, always there to troll when people share opinions contrary to his.

"@" me next time, I'll see it quicker.

gibsongretschfan

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Good old @gibsongretschfan, always there to troll when people share opinions contrary to his.

"@" me next time, I'll see it quicker.

Sounds like a JCM800 to me.... but you're right, the next time I point out what a stupid thing you've said I promise to tag you in it so you read it quicker

Jonathanthomas83

gibsongretschfan said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Good old @gibsongretschfan, always there to troll when people share opinions contrary to his.

"@" me next time, I'll see it quicker.

Sounds like a JCM800 to me.... but you're right, the next time I point out what a stupid thing you've said I promise to tag you in it so you read it quicker

If you can point out where and when I said the Helix doesn't sound like a real amp, I'll give you a couple of LOL's for your trouble, looks like you're chasing a few cheap ones.

I don't get why you pick these fights and insist on calling people out for having an opinion, makes you look a bit silly, to be honest. Lighten up, it's Christmas.

Clip sounds good, by the way.

gearaddict

I think Chris Robertson's take on it is that they all sound good - he just found the Helix the quickest and easiest to work with. He has owned all 3.

gibsongretschfan

Jonathanthomas83 said:

gibsongretschfan said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Good old @gibsongretschfan, always there to troll when people share opinions contrary to his.

"@" me next time, I'll see it quicker.

Sounds like a JCM800 to me.... but you're right, the next time I point out what a stupid thing you've said I promise to tag you in it so you read it quicker

If you can point out where and when I said the Helix doesn't sound like a real amp, I'll give you a couple of LOL's for your trouble, looks like you're chasing a few cheap ones.

I don't get why you pick these fights and insist on calling people out for having an opinion, makes you look a bit silly, to be honest. Lighten up, it's Christmas.

Clip sounds good, by the way.

Having an opinion is one thing but its frustrating when I believe a lot of it is down to user error. We just had a shoot out between the guys favourite JCM800 profile from the mountain of 3rd party profiles you can get for Kemper (of which there are so many great ones) that are practically plug and play good sounding pitched against one of the weakest and controversial models in Helix, although its gotten much better, and probably missing some standard compression and eq at the end of the chain that is already meticulously baked in to the Kemper profiles, and there results were used to concrete the opinion that Helix sucks.

The above sound is with an Ownhammer m75 Marshall cab IR, from the quick start folder, I didn't even audition other IR's just went straight to the JS mix. I didn't eq the amp or change the gain and all I had was the standard LA comp and a hi and lo cut at the end with a little post maximiser to bump it up to level for Soundcloud. Im not saying its a better sound than anything on Kemper, hell I'm not even saying I like it because I would never touch a JCM800 in real life, plus im playing a semi hollow with TV Jones classics in it ffs, but what Im saying is that if people think that Helix is not on a par with the other modellers out there then I feel they may be doing something wrong. That doesn't mean you can't prefer one to the other... or even a particular model from one and a particular profile from another.

gibsongretschfan

ps. If we don't get off these 2204's im like this close to having to go play Crazy Train

WiresDreamDisasters

It's not my kind of sound really. I'd seen the results already before listening, coz I looked at this thread last night in bed. But I haven't read a lot of the follow ups.

1 - Kemper: Sounds a bit cloudy and distant to me. 
2 - Helix: Sounds quite even across the spectrum, and has the most "direct" sound to it. As if the microphone were right up against the grille.
3 - Axe FX: Definitely the poorest "tone" of the three to me. It actually sounds like the microphone was put into a plastic bucket and then aimed at the speaker cone. I think it's the added reverb. Completely destroys it for me.

So I prefer in order: 2, 1, 3.

John_A

@gibsongretschfan Well said. 

Totally agree with you.  I may just be opinion, but @Jonathanthomas83 ; does seem to make out that the amp modelling in Helix isn't as good as Kemper/AxeFX.  Your clip above was IMO better than any of the 3 posted, but I'm sure someone else could come up with one that's better still using any of the big 3 or 4  modellers, i.e it's down to the user and the player not the hardware.  IMO the sonic differences between the 3 are not even worth worrying/arguing about, love my Helix, but had I bought another brand I'm sure I'd love that too.

Jonathanthomas83

I'm quite happy to concede that I prefer @gibsongretschfan's clip to any of the 3 in the OP. Sounds really great. It actually made me want to grab a Helix again and mess about with it.

But you can't blame me for giving my opinion if you think that the 3 clips on the first page aren't up to scratch from a programmers point of view. I can only speak about what's in front of me, surely?

gibsongretschfan

pps. both my clips are recorded through Helix Native using an iRig HD and headphones as my Helix floor is about an hours drive away with the rest of gear currently

John_A

Jonathanthomas83 said:

I'm quite happy to concede that I prefer @gibsongretschfan's clip to any of the 3 in the OP. Sounds really great. It actually made me want to grab a Helix again and mess about with it.

But you can't blame me for giving my opinion if you think that the 3 clips on the first page aren't up to scratch from a programmers point of view. I can only speak about what's in front of me, surely?

You can, but it's comments like you picked the Kemper clip out of the three because it sounded more like a real amp, and Helix doesnt sound as good, which may be taken at face value, or may be read as 'Helix cant sound like a real amp'

Out of interest what would you have said if @gibsongretschfan s clip had been the Helix one out of the three

gibsongretschfan

WiresDreamDisasters said:

It's not my kind of sound really. I'd seen the results already before listening, coz I looked at this thread last night in bed. But I haven't read a lot of the follow ups.

1 - Kemper: Sounds a bit cloudy and distant to me. 
2 - Helix: Sounds quite even across the spectrum, and has the most "direct" sound to it. As if the microphone were right up against the grille.
3 - Axe FX: Definitely the poorest "tone" of the three to me. It actually sounds like the microphone was put into a plastic bucket and then aimed at the speaker cone. I think it's the added reverb. Completely destroys it for me.

So I prefer in order: 2, 1, 3.

Ill be honest of the clips I probably didn't have a favourite but my least favourite was the Helix one... its also the clip I knew immediately was Helix because it had the tell tale signs of the sounds people who aren't satisfied with it seem to be getting with it

Fiftyshadesofjay

Okay, Dual Rectifier comparison now. 

Using whichever TS model was available in front of the modelled amp, all Vintage 30 IR/Profiles. I've double tracked them and they all have a low cut on to clean up the flub, they were all the same in that regard. Still a bit flubby IMO. I've mixed the order up now, see what you think...

Jonathanthomas83

You can read it however you like, but that's not what I said, mate, was it. And I'd never slag off the Helix, in fact I absolutely rave about a lot of its features and if I could tease the right sounds out of it, I'd have one tomorrow as it beats the Kemper in so many other areas.

People get awfully sensitive when others share opinions on gear they own...I do the same all the time. I'm sorry I said what I said but genuinely, that's how I feel. Kemper does sound like a real amp to me. I don't think the Helix or Fractal doesn't, but I don't think they sound as good as the Kemper either, from what I've been able to get out of them anyway...IMO and all that.

@John_A In answer to your question, I've never heard Kemper sound like that, so I'm not sure I'd have said it was necessarily the Kemper, but I'd definitely have said it was the best of the three.

gibsongretschfan

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Okay, Dual Rectifier comparison now. 

Using whichever TS model was available in front of the modelled amp, all Vintage 30 IR/Profiles. I've double tracked them and they all have a low cut on to clean up the flub, they were all the same in that regard. Still a bit flubby IMO. I've mixed the order up now, see what you think...

my favourite is the first one and I I think its probably the Kemper as the other two are needing more hi cut and a little pulled out in the mids

edit: Helix definitely isn't the first one anyway... even though I don think I've ever actually played the Dual Rec model on it

Jonathanthomas83

God knows, I've literally no idea with those clips.

1. Axe FX

2. Kemper

3. Helix

Again, I've literally no idea on this one. And I think I prefer the first clip, marginally.

EDIT: I think I'm more confident in my vote now I've listened a second time. Who knows!

It's good timing though because I've been searching for Helix Dual Rec clips.

WiresDreamDisasters

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Okay, Dual Rectifier comparison now. 

Using whichever TS model was available in front of the modelled amp, all Vintage 30 IR/Profiles. I've double tracked them and they all have a low cut on to clean up the flub, they were all the same in that regard. Still a bit flubby IMO. I've mixed the order up now, see what you think...

1 - Axe FX
2 - Helix
3 - Kemper

I prefer 1 and 2. 3 has a resonant honk to it that I dislike.

Cirrus

I was curious, so I decided to have a mess around with the JCM model this morning. I think my Helix must have been loaded with a different JCM800 because it sounds different than anything anyone else has posted 



Ah, we're on the Dual Rec now. Events have passed me by! 

guitarfishbay

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Okay, Dual Rectifier comparison now. 

Using whichever TS model was available in front of the modelled amp, all Vintage 30 IR/Profiles. I've double tracked them and they all have a low cut on to clean up the flub, they were all the same in that regard. Still a bit flubby IMO. I've mixed the order up now, see what you think...

Did you pan the doubles there?  Sounds mono to me. 

Not knowing what you did in terms of low cuts, and it does sound mono on my headphones right now...

1. Kemper
2. Axe FX
3. Helix

1 and 2 have more low end energy to me.  I think 2 is the Axe FX.  But I think they'd all sound better panned

John_A

Jonathanthomas83 said:

You can read it however you like, but that's not what I said, mate, was it. And I'd never slag off the Helix, in fact I absolutely rave about a lot of its features and if I could tease the right sounds out of it, I'd have one tomorrow as it beats the Kemper in so many other areas.

People get awfully sensitive when others share opinions on gear they own...I do the same all the time. I'm sorry I said what I said but genuinely, that's how I feel. Kemper does sound like a real amp to me. I don't think the Helix or Fractal doesn't, but I don't think they sound as good as the Kemper either, from what I've been able to get out of them anyway...IMO and all that.

@John_A In answer to your question, I've never heard Kemper sound like that, so I'm not sure I'd have said it was necessarily the Kemper, but I'd definitely have said it was the best of the three.

What did you 'not say'

And to me the comment 'I absolutely rave about a lot of its features and if I could tease the right sounds out of it, I'd have one tomorrow as it beats the Kemper in so many other areas. ' read like a put down on the Helix not sounding good

Not here for a fight, just trying to point out that some things you say can be read as Helix bashing