Cheap FRFR speaker

John_A

Gadget said:

What's your recommendation?

Is this for home, rehearsal, gigging or all of the above?  How loud do you need it to be?  How small and light would you like it to be?

Gadget

John_A said:

Gadget said:

What's your recommendation?

Is this for home, rehearsal, gigging or all of the above?  How loud do you need it to be?  How small and light would you like it to be?

Sorry, the question was really aimed at @andyoz and as more of a general 'what's your alternative to current cheap FRFR offerings' question...

... but since you ask 

I'm looking at a pair of speakers of some sort to use with a w/d/w system (for the wets). My wets are going post-guitar speaker, hence my frustration at cabs claiming to be FRFR which may be in fact adding another layer of 'guitar cab filtering' which I don't want.

simonk

andyoz said:

...

The Alto speaker is good FOR THE MONEY but in the PA world they are lower end.

If you're going down this route don't put your signal thru a poxy speaker lads.

You'll end up hating it and going back to normal amps.

Whilst I get where you’re coming from I don’t necessarily agree... I carry a lowly and battered old Alto TX8 to gigs as a backup. It cost me less than 80 quid and yet always surprises me how good it sounds when I put Helix through it. Does it sound as good as my QSC K8.2 or DXR10? Well, no. But as John rightly points out above, cheap speakers don’t have to sound rubbish.

John_A

Gadget said:

John_A said:

Gadget said:

What's your recommendation?

Is this for home, rehearsal, gigging or all of the above?  How loud do you need it to be?  How small and light would you like it to be?

Sorry, the question was really aimed at @andyoz and as more of a general 'what's your alternative to current cheap FRFR offerings' question...

... but since you ask 

I'm looking at a pair of speakers of some sort to use with a w/d/w system (for the wets). My wets are going post-guitar speaker, hence my frustration at cabs claiming to be FRFR which may be in fact adding another layer of 'guitar cab filtering' which I don't want.

You didnt actually answer any of the questions I asked   Although, not true FRFR, PA cabs/monitors may be better described as WRWR (Wide Range, Wide Response), often with a bit of dip in the mids, and would reproduce your wet's pretty accurately IMO, which one I'd recommend depends on your answers to the above

Gadget

John_A said:

Gadget said:

John_A said:

Gadget said:

What's your recommendation?

Is this for home, rehearsal, gigging or all of the above?  How loud do you need it to be?  How small and light would you like it to be?

Sorry, the question was really aimed at @andyoz and as more of a general 'what's your alternative to current cheap FRFR offerings' question...

... but since you ask 

I'm looking at a pair of speakers of some sort to use with a w/d/w system (for the wets). My wets are going post-guitar speaker, hence my frustration at cabs claiming to be FRFR which may be in fact adding another layer of 'guitar cab filtering' which I don't want.

You didnt actually answer any of the questions I asked   Although, not true FRFR, PA cabs/monitors may be better described as WRWR (Wide Range, Wide Response), and would reproduce your wet's pretty accurately IMO, which one I'd recommend depends on your answers to the above

Haha You're right, sorry...

Home studio use only. Moderate volume to keep pace with a V30 dry playing hard rock. Size pretty immaterial, as they can go on my desk, or on poles behind if necessary. I have been thinking about small PA speakers.

John_A

A Pair of studio monitors, Yamaha HS-7's or something, would probably be my call, or for louder,  the above mentions DB Technologies B-Hype 8's would be great.  I've A-B'd mine against my DXR-10 and it's only when the volume gets to a lot louder than you would be using them at, that the DXR is 'better', at moderate levels they sound pretty much the same.

A pair of high end PA speakers like QSC K8.2's, CP8's or Yamaha DXR8's would be just wasting money IMO, they are expensive because they re 'very' loud and good, if you only need 'good' then there are many other options

Gadget

John_A said:

A Pair of studio monitors, Yamaha HS-7's or something, would probably be my call, or for louder,  the above mentions DB Technologies B-Hype 8's would be great.  I've A-B'd mine against my DXR-10 and it's only when the volume gets to a lot louder than you would be using them at, that the DXR is 'better', at moderate levels they sound pretty much the same.

A pair of high end PA speakers like QSC K8.2's, CP8's or Yamaha DXR8's would be just wasting money IMO, they are expensive because they re 'very' loud and good, if you only need 'good' then there are many other options

Thanks. I've got and used studio monitors (Quested F11s), but I think I need just a little more volume and chunk than I like to risk putting through them. Not 'club' loud though,as you say.

John_A

Gadget said:

John_A said:

A Pair of studio monitors, Yamaha HS-7's or something, would probably be my call, or for louder,  the above mentions DB Technologies B-Hype 8's would be great.  I've A-B'd mine against my DXR-10 and it's only when the volume gets to a lot louder than you would be using them at, that the DXR is 'better', at moderate levels they sound pretty much the same.

A pair of high end PA speakers like QSC K8.2's, CP8's or Yamaha DXR8's would be just wasting money IMO, they are expensive because they re 'very' loud and good, if you only need 'good' then there are many other options

Thanks. I've got and used studio monitors (Quested F11s), but I think I need just a little more volume and chunk than I like to risk putting through them. Not 'club' loud though,as you say.

I wouldn't want to pop my monitors either and they are a pair of Dynaudio's not as costly as  your Quested F11's! 

Guess it come down to budget,  I'd say try the DB's, (they do 10's too) which IMO are as good as the Altos and a lot cheaper, the next level up would be something like DB LVX-8's, DXR-8 or 10 or the new QSC CP-8s's, but the main benefit of these is they will still sound good louder then you will ever need, or if you were happy with something physically bigger RCF 312's but I think thing they are far bigger than you need.

Gadget

John_A said:

Guess it come down to budget,  I'd say try the DB's, (they do 10's too) which IMO are as good as the Altos and a lot cheaper, the next level up would be something like DB LVX-8's, DXR-8 or 10 or the new QSC CP-8s's, but the main benefit of these is they will still sound good louder then you will ever need, or if you were happy with something physically bigger RCF 312's but I think thing they are far bigger than you need.

Hmmm, some interesting options to look at there. I'll check them out. Thanks.

NelsonP

Gadget said:

John_A said:

Gadget said:

What's your recommendation?

Is this for home, rehearsal, gigging or all of the above?  How loud do you need it to be?  How small and light would you like it to be?

Sorry, the question was really aimed at @andyoz and as more of a general 'what's your alternative to current cheap FRFR offerings' question...

... but since you ask 

I'm looking at a pair of speakers of some sort to use with a w/d/w system (for the wets). My wets are going post-guitar speaker, hence my frustration at cabs claiming to be FRFR which may be in fact adding another layer of 'guitar cab filtering' which I don't want.

Definitely check out the IRT-X. They are designed to do this specifically.

8 string guitar and gurning not required...

Gadget

NelsonP said:

Gadget said:

John_A said:

Gadget said:

What's your recommendation?

Is this for home, rehearsal, gigging or all of the above?  How loud do you need it to be?  How small and light would you like it to be?

Sorry, the question was really aimed at @andyoz and as more of a general 'what's your alternative to current cheap FRFR offerings' question...

... but since you ask 

I'm looking at a pair of speakers of some sort to use with a w/d/w system (for the wets). My wets are going post-guitar speaker, hence my frustration at cabs claiming to be FRFR which may be in fact adding another layer of 'guitar cab filtering' which I don't want.

Definitely check out the IRT-X. They are designed to do this specifically.

Will do.

John_A

Gadget said:

NelsonP said:

Gadget said:

John_A said:

Gadget said:

What's your recommendation?

Is this for home, rehearsal, gigging or all of the above?  How loud do you need it to be?  How small and light would you like it to be?

Sorry, the question was really aimed at @andyoz and as more of a general 'what's your alternative to current cheap FRFR offerings' question...

... but since you ask 

I'm looking at a pair of speakers of some sort to use with a w/d/w system (for the wets). My wets are going post-guitar speaker, hence my frustration at cabs claiming to be FRFR which may be in fact adding another layer of 'guitar cab filtering' which I don't want.

Definitely check out the IRT-X. They are designed to do this specifically.

Will do.

I’d looked at these and just assumed they were big 12” boxes, may we’ll try one myself.  It’s twice the price of the little DB’s which come with a 5 year warranty though

andyoz

Sorry for the rant.

It's just all this FRFR marketing does my head in. They're typically just rebadged PA speakers.

I personally like coaxial designs for use up close as I'm always aware of the displacement between the woofer and tweeter in normal 2 ways.  At the lower price end I'm a fan of dB Technology gear. It's surprisingly rugged.

Yamaha's range of actives have a deserved reputation as probably the best sound/reliability at their price point. Hire companies are full of them for a reason.  The fan on their DXR would put me off a bit though but most don't worry.

These all packaging Class D amps with huge punch and most don't need it.

Is anyone made a simple monitor with Class A/B amps and high quality 12" coaxial (under 15kg) I'd be all over it

If it sounds good to you then it IS good. It's just the marketing spin I object to.

NelsonP

This looks interesting too..
https://celestion.com/product/200/f12x200/

NelsonP

John_A said:

Gadget said:

NelsonP said:

Gadget said:

John_A said:

Gadget said:

What's your recommendation?

Is this for home, rehearsal, gigging or all of the above?  How loud do you need it to be?  How small and light would you like it to be?

Sorry, the question was really aimed at @andyoz and as more of a general 'what's your alternative to current cheap FRFR offerings' question...

... but since you ask 

I'm looking at a pair of speakers of some sort to use with a w/d/w system (for the wets). My wets are going post-guitar speaker, hence my frustration at cabs claiming to be FRFR which may be in fact adding another layer of 'guitar cab filtering' which I don't want.

Definitely check out the IRT-X. They are designed to do this specifically.

Will do.

I’d looked at these and just assumed they were big 12” boxes, may we’ll try one myself.  It’s twice the price of the little DB’s which come with a 5 year warranty though

They are surprisingly small. 8 inch speaker.
The clever bit is the multiple inputs that it has. You can use it as a std frfr speaker (which i do) but it has another input that let's you including put it in between your amp and speaker. 

https://m.imgur.com/WPhzfNV

John_A

NelsonP said:

John_A said:

Gadget said:

NelsonP said:

Gadget said:

John_A said:

Gadget said:

What's your recommendation?

Is this for home, rehearsal, gigging or all of the above?  How loud do you need it to be?  How small and light would you like it to be?

Sorry, the question was really aimed at @andyoz and as more of a general 'what's your alternative to current cheap FRFR offerings' question...

... but since you ask 

I'm looking at a pair of speakers of some sort to use with a w/d/w system (for the wets). My wets are going post-guitar speaker, hence my frustration at cabs claiming to be FRFR which may be in fact adding another layer of 'guitar cab filtering' which I don't want.

Definitely check out the IRT-X. They are designed to do this specifically.

Will do.

I’d looked at these and just assumed they were big 12” boxes, may we’ll try one myself.  It’s twice the price of the little DB’s which come with a 5 year warranty though

They are surprisingly small. 8 inch speaker.
The clever bit is the multiple inputs that it has. You can use it as a std frfr speaker (which i do) but it has another input that let's you including put it in between your amp and speaker. 

https://m.imgur.com/WPhzfNV

Yes, agree, they look good.  I'd probably only ever use it with my Helix, so wonder if it would actually sound any better than my DB B-Hype though, Only have one 'proper' amp left and the plan is to get rid of that so a lot of the features would be wasted on me

andyoz

NelsonP said:

This looks interesting too..
https://celestion.com/product/200/f12x200/

Now that's what I'm talking about - Coming Soon!

A true point source speaker for near field use.

It's designed to take 200w so if a clever manufacturer matches it to a sweet 200w Class A/B amp you'll have a sweet rig.

There's no point using 1000W+ PA speaker for modelling.

Gadget

andyoz said:

NelsonP said:

This looks interesting too..
https://celestion.com/product/200/f12x200/

Now that's what I'm talking about - Coming Soon!

A true point source speaker for near field use.

It's designed to take 200w so if a clever manufacturer matches it to a sweet 200w Class A/B amp you'll have a sweet rig.

There's no point using 1000W+ PA speaker for modelling.

Alas, it's also what I'm talking about...

"... gives the X200 the feel and live response of a traditional guitar speaker, delivering all the physical feedback you'd expect from playing through a conventional guitar rig..."

If you don't have amp and / or speaker emulation, then yes, you probably want a guitar speaker. There are already lots of those to choose from.

However, if you do have amp and / or speaker emulation (as most modellers do), you surely want as near true FRFR as you can get - without any added 'guitar' flavouring - as all the guitar output 'tones' have been taken care of earlier in the chain.

What is this for?!

andyoz

Gadget said:

andyoz said:

NelsonP said:

This looks interesting too..
https://celestion.com/product/200/f12x200/

Now that's what I'm talking about - Coming Soon!

A true point source speaker for near field use.

It's designed to take 200w so if a clever manufacturer matches it to a sweet 200w Class A/B amp you'll have a sweet rig.

There's no point using 1000W+ PA speaker for modelling.

Alas, it's also what I'm talking about...

"... gives the X200 the feel and live response of a traditional guitar speaker, delivering all the physical feedback you'd expect from playing through a conventional guitar rig..."

If you don't have amp and / or speaker emulation, then yes, you probably want a guitar speaker. There are already lots of those to choose from.

However, if you do have amp and / or speaker emulation (as most modellers do), you surely want as near true FRFR as you can get - without any added 'guitar' flavouring - as all the guitar output 'tones' have been taken care of earlier in the chain.

What is this for?!

Whilst it's not linear, it's alot more linear than typical guitar speaker.  There's a tweeter hidden in the centre there...

You'd be surprised how non-linear cheaper PA speakers are, especially around the crossover region.  There's typically alot of 'smoothing' applied to any frequency response plots they release (if they release them at all)

FarleyUK

Quick update on the Headrush 12" FrFr speakers.

Gigged two of them in stereo as a backline on Saturday night, and they performed very well indeed. Sounded superb, and I *think* they might have been better than my previous DXR10s.... although that might be more due to my poor memory.

Here's a clip - https://www.facebook.com/285520321942082/posts/533695833791195?sfns=mo

£500 for a great-sounding full stereo FrFr backline solution? BARGAIN!