Help me make my love rock sound good !

crunchman

ICBM said:

If it is one, Melvyn Hiscox - who used to be a member here for a while - wrote in his book about guitar-building that he thought the truss rod was a critical and often overlooked factor, because it alters the resonance of the whole neck, which is the most important part of the guitar for tone. Whether that's true or not I don't know either, but it's at least as likely as the glue or the finish...

Gibson haven't always got the truss rod right though.  You had the whole issue of the sheath around the truss rod with them.

ICBM

crunchman said:

Gibson haven't always got the truss rod right though.  You had the whole issue of the sheath around the truss rod with them.

That depends on whether the sheath matters or if it's some other factor. The same people who complain about the sheath also think the long tenon matters, and it clearly doesn't because many Les Pauls with the 70s medium tenon and plenty with the short tenon sound fine too.

Maybe they just need a poorly-fitting neck joint with a 'resonance cavity' in it to sound right...

crunchman

ICBM said:

crunchman said:

Gibson haven't always got the truss rod right though.  You had the whole issue of the sheath around the truss rod with them.

That depends on whether the sheath matters or if it's some other factor. The same people who complain about the sheath also think the long tenon matters, and it clearly doesn't because many Les Pauls with the 70s medium tenon and plenty with the short tenon sound fine too.

Maybe they just need a poorly-fitting neck joint with a 'resonance cavity' in it to sound right...

My R9 that I bought in the big frenzy a few months ago definitely souds livelier than the two previous Custom Shop Les Pauls I've had.  That may or may not be down to not having a sheath around the truss rod.

LastMantra

ICBM said:

Maybe they just need a poorly-fitting neck joint with a 'resonance cavity' in it to sound right...

I've actually thought something similar. Maybe Gibson's "faults" give them their sound. People do often say PRS are "sterile". 

ICBM

LastMantra said:

I've actually thought something similar. Maybe Gibson's "faults" give them their sound. People do often say PRS are "sterile". 

I was only half-joking. In my opinion Fenders sound better with a thin card or fibreboard shim in the neck pocket too, despite conventional wisdom that shims 'harm the vibration transfer', and that if you need to use one to get the angle right then a 'proper' tapered wood wedge is better. I don't think so...

sweepy

A good Les Paul sounds like a Telecaster on steroids imho, very resonant and.lively. The good ones are made up of small details, neck/bridge/headstock angle, lightweight hardware, articulate unpotted pickups  decent cured woods and nitro finishes etc, really a case of the Sum of its Parts 

guitarfishbay

ICBM said:

LastMantra said:

I've actually thought something similar. Maybe Gibson's "faults" give them their sound. People do often say PRS are "sterile". 

I was only half-joking. In my opinion Fenders sound better with a thin card or fibreboard shim in the neck pocket too, despite conventional wisdom that shims 'harm the vibration transfer', and that if you need to use one to get the angle right then a 'proper' tapered wood wedge is better. I don't think so...

I agree but I wonder how much of this is related to break angle of the strings.

I’ve shimmed almost every bolt on guitar I’ve had, unless it wouldn’t have it (eg saddles already fairly high).

equalsql

ICBM said:

Sell it and buy a Gibson Les Paul Studio.

You've just found what I have with every supposed ‘Gibson killer’ copy I’ve ever played - they just don’t sound as good as a good Gibson.

Of course the next problem is finding a good Gibson . Although to be fair, they’re more common than often thought...

Sorry @ICBM but that's such a crock.

The top end Japanese Tokai's sound gorgeous and their QC (for the price) puts Gibson to shame.

I made the mistake of putting some OX4 pickups in mine under the delusion that they would improve an already great guitar..

Wrong! on all counts.

ICBM

equalsql said:

Sorry @ICBM but that's such a crock.

The top end Japanese Tokai's sound gorgeous and their QC (for the price) puts Gibson to shame.

QC is irrelevant - PRS's puts Gibson to shame too, but a PRS SC doesn't sound like a Les Paul.

You happen to like your Tokai, which is fine. I prefer Gibsons. I actually prefer most Norlin Les Pauls to modern ones too - because they usually sound better, despite some notoriously poor QC and design changes - and I know that isn't a popular opinion.

Hence why I recommended that riffpowers sells his Tokai to someone who likes them, and buys a Gibson - two people win.

clarkefan

Check the pots, are they 300k?  If so change them to 500k.  Big difference in clarity, per other thread on pots

Fifty9

I’ve had a navigator 56ri and still have a tokai 1980 ls-120 that are both a good bit better than any gibson I’ve played apart from my 2017 r8 & even that may be the honeymoon period. 

tone1

sweepy said:

A good Les Paul sounds like a Telecaster on steroids imho, very resonant and.lively. The good ones are made up of small details, neck/bridge/headstock angle, lightweight hardware, articulate unpotted pickups  decent cured woods and nitro finishes etc, really a case of the Sum of its Parts 

Definitely this... I’ve always thought that a Tele is a Les Paul for Fender lovers.... 

Danielsguitars

The neck construction is a massive part of tone imo, i can't say if a traditional truss rod is much better but that's what i use, I'm always of the opinion if it ain't broke, i originally built with modern rods but stopped along time ago

I think weight has something to do with a good LP tone but even that's subjective, i know what i like and it's not that thick toned sound most seem to like but more towards the tele type tone like some vintage ones I've played, around 9lb or just under seems to give a good balance for what i want

It's a pretty simple formula Mahogany body  Maple cap nearly 15mm thick and nice mahogany neck, as long as it's all well seasoned it should be good

riffpowers

John_A said:

Bought my 1979 Tokai LS80 12 years ago, had 3 Gibson’s at the time, all of which have gone, and bought and sold another 4 since including a R8, and the Tokai is still here.  IMO it’s a better guitar than any Gibson I’ve played.

Mines just an ls60 but t’s a great quality guitar that plays great , stays in tune and hangs just right on the strap so it’s ideal for gigging . Just wish it sounded more dynamic and lively .

soma1975

ICBM said:

I don't disagree with that - Gibson do make some real howlers - but I've still never played one single copy that sounds as good as a *good* Gibson.

Isn't Gil Yaron currently recognised as one of the the best Les Paul makers out there?

And what about Kris Derrig's LP Slash used for Appetite for Destruction? Pretty seminal Les Paul tone for a copy.

ICBM

soma1975 said:

Isn't Gil Yaron currently recognised as one of the the best Les Paul makers out there?

I've never played one of his so I can't comment.

soma1975 said:

And what about Kris Derrig's LP Slash used for Appetite for Destruction? Pretty seminal Les Paul tone for a copy.

Mosquito through a transistor radio tone? Hmmm...

[Flame suit now on .]

soma1975

Probably sold more Les Pauls than any other album. 

roberty

I have those exact pups in my V100 copy and it sounds good to me, quite bright and lively

I have the 1970s dimarzio equivalents in my R8 which are a slightly lower wind. It's a better sounding guitar, more mellow and more body despite the pups being brighter

I'd get a 50s style harness in if I were you, 500k pots

John_A

riffpowers said:

John_A said:

Bought my 1979 Tokai LS80 12 years ago, had 3 Gibson’s at the time, all of which have gone, and bought and sold another 4 since including a R8, and the Tokai is still here.  IMO it’s a better guitar than any Gibson I’ve played.

Mines just an ls60 but t’s a great quality guitar that plays great , stays in tune and hangs just right on the strap so it’s ideal for gigging . Just wish it sounded more dynamic and lively .

Like others have said, some slightly less hot pickups may help, my personal faves are Deacci’s but there are a lot of good ones out there, contrary to trend .i really don’t like Ox4’s

soma1975

I think the thing with OX4s is that they are articulate / bright and possibly a bit more vintage PAF 'correct' than a lot of their peers. In my experience they reward making use of the vol/tone controls but for players who leave everything on full they can be a bit too bright without taming. I think possibly something like their Beano set might tame them a bit.