Brexit Prepping

NelsonP

Thank You

It’s because of everyone involved, all across the country, that we achieved this magnificent result. This is your victory.

...from the Vote Leave website landing page.

  

fretmeister

IF I was enough of an arsehole (I'm not - just) I'd stand outside Honda and tell the leave voters on the workforce "You won. get over it."

But I won't - because they were lied to and they believed it. They were victims of a well funded and superbly orchestrated and targeted campaign that was devoid of any actual truth. I genuinely feel sorry for them.

Good job the govt doing all of this is well known for it's compassion and known for properly funding Job Seekers / Retraining etc etc...

Oh.

WiresDreamDisasters

fretmeister said:

TBF the govt and leavers are selectively quoting from Honda - claiming that it had nothing to do with Brexit, while ignoring the actual content of their various press releases saying that uncertainties linked to Brexit were a factor in the decision.

It's almost like some people don't realise that the 1 thing that all businesses hate is uncertainty. Even a shit certain market is better and easier to deal with than an uncertain maybe good maybe bad one.

No-one is selectively quoting. Well... if anyone is, it's the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47287386

Honda said the move was due to global changes in the car industry and the need to launch electric vehicles, and it had nothing to do with Brexit.

Ian Howells, senior vice-president for Honda in Europe, told the BBC: "We're seeing unprecedented change in the industry on a global scale. We have to move very swiftly to electrification of our vehicles because of demand of our customers and legislation.

"This is not a Brexit-related issue for us, it's being made on the global-related changes I've spoken about.

"We've always seen Brexit as something we'll get through, but these changes globally are something we will have to respond to. We deeply regret the impact it will have on the Swindon community."

So who is telling porky pies exactly?

fretmeister

On R2 earlier there was a trade chap with 20 years Japan experience claiming its Brexit - due to uncertainties it raises.

Also noting that Honda are only withdrawing from U.K. and not the rest of the EU. 

WiresDreamDisasters

fretmeister said:

On R2 earlier there was a trade chap with 20 years Japan experience claiming its Brexit - due to uncertainties it raises.

Also noting that Honda are only withdrawing from U.K. and not the rest of the EU. 

So you're gonna trust the guy on the radio but not the guitar who is the VP for Honda Europe? Isn't that a bit ideological?

Honda are also leaving Turkey as @crunchman has been trying to point out in the other thread. I think the weight of probability is on the side of it being nothing, or at the least very little, to do with Brexit. Based on the evidence put forth.

Guy on the radio who isn't involved in the process is nothing more than a talking head. It would be like me trying to speak for another company I had never worked for, claiming that "oh, I just know how they work because they're a music tech company... and I've been in music tech for 10 years" ... it doesn't work that way.

crunchman

fretmeister said:

On R2 earlier there was a trade chap with 20 years Japan experience claiming its Brexit - due to uncertainties it raises.

Also noting that Honda are only withdrawing from U.K. and not the rest of the EU. 

They can't withdraw from the rest of the EU.  Swindon is their only plant in the EU that manufactures cars.  They do have a factory in Belgium that makes parts, but no other factories that actually make cars.

As @WiresDreamDisasters has referenced above, they are also shutting down their plant in Turkey.

This is a wider strategy to return manufacturing to Japan now that there are no tariffs on bringing cars into the EU from Japan.

fretmeister

Claiming it has “nothing” to do with Brexit is naive.

It will be a factor because it affects international trade. How big a factor it actually is will be known to Honda only.

Its also possible that any Honda statement that downplays Brexit as a reason is political, intending to cause easier Japan / U.K. trade negotiations with a government desperate to claim nothing is the fault of Brexit.

Then Liam Fox sends a letter to Japan and Japan cancels Hammond’s  trip to see them... nice going.

Seems he’s insulted me of the few countries who might have been willing to not contradict UK govt statements.

Once again - Liam Fox is a massive problem. He genuinely couldn't get laid in a whorehouse.

WiresDreamDisasters

fretmeister said:

Claiming it has “nothing” to do with Brexit is naive.

It will be a factor because it affects international trade. How big a factor it actually is will be known to Honda only.

Its also possible that any Honda statement that downplays Brexit as a reason is political, intending to cause easier Japan / U.K. trade negotiations with a government desperate to claim nothing is the fault of Brexit.

Then Liam Fox sends a letter to Japan and Japan cancels Hammond’s  trip to see them... nice going.

Seems he’s insulted me of the few countries who might have been willing to not contradict UK govt statements.

Once again - Liam Fox is a massive problem. He genuinely couldn't get laid in a whorehouse.

So the man in charge of EU operations for Honda says it's nothing to do with Brexit, and he's naive even though he has all of the facts to hand and directly knows why Honda made the decision they made... and a few dudes on the internet think otherwise because they're pro-EU, and so that's the choice I have to choose from here?

C'mon Paul, you're not usually this silly.

fretmeister

I'm not being silly. I'm being open to the idea that Honda will not be disclosing everything - just like any other company - in order to seek better terms for other matters.

Hey - if the Honda CEO wants to do an affadavit and state that Brexit wasn't even mentioned in the meeting (or mentioned as a list of non-factors) where the decision was made - then fair enough.

digitalscream

WiresDreamDisasters said:

fretmeister said:

Claiming it has “nothing” to do with Brexit is naive.

It will be a factor because it affects international trade. How big a factor it actually is will be known to Honda only.

Its also possible that any Honda statement that downplays Brexit as a reason is political, intending to cause easier Japan / U.K. trade negotiations with a government desperate to claim nothing is the fault of Brexit.

Then Liam Fox sends a letter to Japan and Japan cancels Hammond’s  trip to see them... nice going.

Seems he’s insulted me of the few countries who might have been willing to not contradict UK govt statements.

Once again - Liam Fox is a massive problem. He genuinely couldn't get laid in a whorehouse.

So the man in charge of EU operations for Honda says it's nothing to do with Brexit, and he's naive even though he has all of the facts to hand and directly knows why Honda made the decision they made... and a few dudes on the internet think otherwise because they're pro-EU, and so that's the choice I have to choose from here?

C'mon Paul, you're not usually this silly.

If I was the man in charge of EU operations for Honda, I would say it's nothing to do with Brexit regardless - in order to avoid alienating up to 52% of my potential customers in the UK

WiresDreamDisasters

fretmeister said:

I'm not being silly. I'm being open to the idea that Honda will not be disclosing everything - just like any other company - in order to seek better terms for other matters.

Hey - if the Honda CEO wants to do an affadavit and state that Brexit wasn't even mentioned in the meeting (or mentioned as a list of non-factors) where the decision was made - then fair enough.

digitalscream said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

fretmeister said:

Claiming it has “nothing” to do with Brexit is naive.

It will be a factor because it affects international trade. How big a factor it actually is will be known to Honda only.

Its also possible that any Honda statement that downplays Brexit as a reason is political, intending to cause easier Japan / U.K. trade negotiations with a government desperate to claim nothing is the fault of Brexit.

Then Liam Fox sends a letter to Japan and Japan cancels Hammond’s  trip to see them... nice going.

Seems he’s insulted me of the few countries who might have been willing to not contradict UK govt statements.

Once again - Liam Fox is a massive problem. He genuinely couldn't get laid in a whorehouse.

So the man in charge of EU operations for Honda says it's nothing to do with Brexit, and he's naive even though he has all of the facts to hand and directly knows why Honda made the decision they made... and a few dudes on the internet think otherwise because they're pro-EU, and so that's the choice I have to choose from here?

C'mon Paul, you're not usually this silly.

If I was the man in charge of EU operations for Honda, I would say it's nothing to do with Brexit regardless - in order to avoid alienating up to 52% of my potential customers in the UK

Possibly on both counts. I don't deny that as a possibility.

But there isn't any evidence for it I don't think. 

Do you not think it's better to talk about facts rather than what could end up being a kind of conspiracy theory?

digitalscream

WiresDreamDisasters said:

fretmeister said:

I'm not being silly. I'm being open to the idea that Honda will not be disclosing everything - just like any other company - in order to seek better terms for other matters.

Hey - if the Honda CEO wants to do an affadavit and state that Brexit wasn't even mentioned in the meeting (or mentioned as a list of non-factors) where the decision was made - then fair enough.

digitalscream said:

If I was the man in charge of EU operations for Honda, I would say it's nothing to do with Brexit regardless - in order to avoid alienating up to 52% of my potential customers in the UK

Possibly on both counts. I don't deny that as a possibility.

But there isn't any evidence for it I don't think. 

Do you not think it's better to talk about facts rather than what could end up being a kind of conspiracy theory?

You're right, it's guesswork. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to consider it a case of "walks like a duck, quacks like a duck" - given everything that's going on at the moment, and the number of companies working towards exiting the UK right before Brexit D-day, it'd be a massive bloody coincidence for this to be completely unrelated.

In fact, if it genuinely hasn't even factored into Honda's discussions, I'd be questioning the competence of their management.

WiresDreamDisasters

How many companies are working towards exiting the UK before "Brexit D-Day" out of interest?? What's the number?

crunchman

digitalscream said:

In fact, if it genuinely hasn't even factored into Honda's discussions, I'd be questioning the competence of their management.

Just because it's factored into the discussions doesn't mean that it has affected the outcome.

Let's actually look at what is going on:

They produce one model in Swindon:  a long in the tooth Civic.  Production of that model has dropped from 250,000 to 160,000.  It needs replacing as the whole world is moving towards electric in one form or other.  (They also produce the Civic in Turkey)

So the discussion is basically where to invest hundreds of millions to set up production of the next generation of hybrid and electric vehicles.   All of their infrastructure for electric vehicles seems to be in Japan.  Tariffs on Japanese cars imported into the EU are being abolished.  They are a Japanese company.  They decide to build the cars in Japan.  It's the logical outcome.

The fact that they are killing the Turkey production as well backs up the statement that they have made that it is not Brexit related.

Remainers making claims that are untrue has undermined their case all along.  Even during the referendum campaign, Project Fear made some ludicrous claims that undermined the more sensible aspects of the remain case.

fretmeister

It just happens to be that some of the more devastating predictions - like the medicine shortages - are coming true already.

Your treating consultant Neurosurgeon gives you a drug that he considers best for whatever it is you are suffering from.

Supply runs low.

Your pharmacist (not a neurosurgeon and without access to your records) gets to unilaterally decide to lower the amounts or swap the medicine to something else. What is the pharms process for deciding whether your meds should be lowered in strength rather than your fellow patient? What proper review of all the medical records is there? None required apparently.

The new meds are inadequate and / or harmful. The pharmacist has no way of knowing if you have allergies or if a particular alternative is contra-indicated because of something in your personal medical history

Life expectancy is shortened or you suffer other damage or suffer longer term illness that the right meds would have stopped. You suffer a longer period away from work than you should have had leading to additional loss of earnings. You suffer a longer period of pain.

Who do you sue?

I can see the treating docs writing massive long form explanations on every prescription now to try to stop the pharms from doing it, taking up valuable time that could be used for treating other patients.

And I can see the pharmacists refusing to change the meds for fear of litigation and instead send the patient back to the treating doctor for them to prescribe an alternative - again using up time that should have been used on a new patient. And those 'send-backs' could well take months as many consultant appointments sometimes take.

And then the consultant is forced to go against what he already considered was the best course of treatment for you.

This is going to cost lives.

digitalscream

fretmeister said:

It just happens to be that some of the more devastating predictions - like the medicine shortages - are coming true already.

Your treating consultant Neurosurgeon gives you a drug that he considers best for whatever it is you are suffering from.

Supply runs low.

Your pharmacist (not a neurosurgeon and without access to your records) gets to unilaterally decide to lower the amounts or swap the medicine to something else. What is the pharms process for deciding whether your meds should be lowered in strength rather than your fellow patient? What proper review of all the medical records is there? None required apparently.

The new meds are inadequate and / or harmful. The pharmacist has no way of knowing if you have allergies or if a particular alternative is contra-indicated because of something in your personal medical history

Life expectancy is shortened or you suffer other damage or suffer longer term illness that the right meds would have stopped. You suffer a longer period away from work than you should have had leading to additional loss of earnings. You suffer a longer period of pain.

Who do you sue?

I can see the treating docs writing massive long form explanations on every prescription now to try to stop the pharms from doing it, taking up valuable time that could be used for treating other patients.

And I can see the pharmacists refusing to change the meds for fear of litigation and instead send the patient back to the treating doctor for them to prescribe an alternative - again using up time that should have been used on a new patient. And those 'send-backs' could well take months as many consultant appointments sometimes take.

And then the consultant is forced to go against what he already considered was the best course of treatment for you.

This is going to cost lives.

<Trump>
That's the problem with Socialist health care services. We can help with that.
</Trump>

fretmeister

Trump, this week...

https://www.ecowatch.com/trump-epa-pesticides--2629292283.html


Because we don't need bees....

LastMantra

Big pharma will find a way. 

seany65

Honda closing its factory in GB was mostly down to rises in fuel costs and carbon charges as well as some uncertainty about Brexit. They also already make that particular model in Japan and will continue to do so and were cutting back on production partly due to the rise of Electric cars.

They also now don't need production facilities in the EU to have access to the single market, so I'm not so sure that  Brexit is that big a factor.

In news bulletins they started off saying most of that, but after a very short while they were only mentioning Brexit as the reason.

I'd be a little surprised that a pharmacist would alter the amount or strength of any drug prescribed by a doctor or surgeon, especially as they don;t don't know the exact diagnosis, and I'd be surprised if it's already happening as fretmiester suggests.

Octafish

So much negativity, we should be all prepping for the glorious new dawn of cheap footwear....