Expensive Guitars

thegummy

Seeing the "4.5k down to 2.5k" GG sale reminded me - I often wonder how guitars can cost over 2 grand.

I would love to play a 4 grand guitar purely to find out what could possibly make it any better than a 1-2 grand guitar (or even cheaper).

Is it similar to, say, a M&S shirt vs. a Gucci shirt in that there's nothing practically superior, it's just that one has a perceived prestige that appeals to some types of people?

Or is there actually something tangible that makes it work better?

Obviously this question can be susceptible to bias; someone who has spent that much on a guitar might be inclined to believe it was worth it or people who can't afford it might be inclined to believe they're not missing out on anything. But let's hope we can look past that and discuss what actual improvements come in at that level.

Danielsguitars

You'll find there's a world of difference between mass made and handmade guitars like a probett for instance , both cost about the same for a high end guitar and only one is worth it imo

You're paying alot for a big name brand, only the person buying it can say if it's worth it to them

Legionreturns

The law of diminishing returns definitely applies. 

A £4k guitar is 100% definitely not twice as good as a £2k one. It may be "better" ...but unless in the hands of a very accomplished guitarist, it's unlikely to be noticeably so. 

The question is how much you're prepared to spend for maybe 5% improvement and some prestige/ bragging rights. 

thegummy

customkits said:

You'll find there's a world of difference between mass made and handmade guitars like a probett for instance , both cost about the same for a high end guitar and only one is worth it imo

You're paying alot for a big name brand, only the person buying it can say if it's worth it to them

Apart from being able to customise the specs, what's actually better about the handmade one compared to even like a Fender or Gibson Standard?

roberty

Out of the gate, 20% of that is VAT, plus dealer markup. This is substantial as you go over the £2k mark. I expect manufacturer markup is expressed as a percentage, too

They're made of better materials and fewer hands which costs more. You're basically paying to have it a bit nicer

Whether or not you think it's worth it is up to you. It's the same with any sort of equipment, cameras, golf clubs etc. Once you get into it there's practically no limit to what someone will be willing to charge you

dindude

From my reckoning, 2K-2.5Kish buys you a great quality guitar, usually made with CNC but with good selection of wood/hardware and plenty of evidence of hand-fetling and general good design. My CS Fender and Suhr fit into this category.

Above this and it's usually bling you're paying for, more complex build, or totally hand-made one-man or small team stuff.

The Gibson 4.5K - 2.5K example however is simply overpriced and a price correction IMO.

roberty

dindude said:

From my reckoning, 2K-2.5Kish buys you a great quality guitar, usually made with CNC but with good selection of wood/hardware and plenty of evidence of hand-fetling and general good design. My CS Fender and Suhr fit into this category.

Above this and it's usually bling you're paying for, more complex build, or totally hand-made one-man or small team stuff.

The Gibson 4.5K - 2.5K example however is simply overpriced and a price correction IMO.

 Gibson are definitely guilty of putting a number in the name of certain lines ('59), tweaking a few specs and wanging an extra grand or two on the price. This tends to mirror the price differences in the vintage market

stickyfiddle

To continue the clothing analogy, some shirts fit you better than others, and some are made better than others, and some are made with better quality materials. Price is not necessarily an indicator of any of those factors.

I would argue the same is true for guitars. Generally a more expensive guitars will be made with more expensive components (generally higher quality, but again, not necessarily once you get about £1500 or so), and will often have more attention to detail in finishing, fretboard edge rounding, setup, etc.

The simple answer is to go try some and see what differences you notice, and whether you care.

Strat54

Like the shirt, there is a difference....but seemingly not everyone can tell this. Threads like this are pointless., go try both and report back.

JDE

I’ve been really lucky to have played a lot of guitars from a pretty wide range of values - with regard to a regular production guitar, I personally would not pay over £2K any more. The used market is so large and there are now so many options available I cannot see the sense of this, for me at least. Likewise, I probably wouldn’t look at a £200 guitar, either. It’s cutting your nose off to spite your face either way, as we all know there are some *amazing* £200 guitars and some *amazing* £2.5K ones, plus the odd “screaming deal” that comes our way. Basically if I couldn’t find something really really really great for under a grand, I think the problem would lie with me, not the guitars.

Exception - luthier-built, small businesses, custom stuff. Acoustics, archtops and the like, I would be willing to pony up for; or a custom thing. I wouldn’t pay someone £3k to bolt a Tele together for me just because they work on their own, but a Collings, DuPont, Trenier, Nishgaki etc...

Schnozz

No guitar is worth more than £2k IMO.

FastEddie

You could place the supply of guitars in this price range in two categories. 1) Big firms 2) Small volume luthiers

The big firm price justification has been long understood.

I'll wave a flag for the small volume luthier. 
I'd say that their business risks are incredibly sensitive so each piece has to be the best. Behind that sentence is a huge reason why a small volume could be much better, hence the price.

Even though the resale value of the smaller firm would be lower (I just bought a Martyn Booth for 40% of retail and sold a Gibson for 175% of retail) I'd take that hit to both support a luthier but also to enjoy the experience.

I'd also be more likely to keep a personally made guitar for longer. I'm gassing for a Wood Library PRS custom made.

jonnyburgo

I guess it’s like asking what is better about a Spielberg movie compared to a movie by a young upstart.  We’ll sort of... shite analogy really.

its not the guitar it’s what you do with it isn’t it? Look at RL Burnside with his Jap teisco sounding better than I ever could with my SG standard, which is my most expensive guitar.

Its totally in in the eye of the beholder there isn’t better just different I think. The brand might make you feel cool but there is always some kid around the corner with an Encore who could totally take the piss.

RandallFlagg

I like high end guitars but have only owned one that is above say Fender Custom Shop/Gibson Custom R8/9 levels, a PRS Modern Eagle in 2005. I think it as around £4K at the time. It had a solid Brazilian rosewood neck and an exceptional wide flamed top and it really did feel in the next class up. It was constructed immaculately from some obviously carefully selected woods and at the time I felt it justified being very expensive. I had a garish top that lead me to sell it and at the time I don't think I appreciated fully what I owned in terms of a solid Brazilian rosewood neck. I wish I still owned it.

I have no issue with guitars being priced £4K, £10, £20K or £100K and up but the returns definitely diminish in terms of practical abilities as a musical instrument. "Expensive" is a relative term that reflects your own value thresholds and may sometimes be linked to your own finances, lifestyle, upbringing, life experiences etc.

Owning a £10K guitar is not just about the perception of the cost it takes to build it, the cost of the parts or the woods sourced, or it's practical application as a musical instrument, it's also about investment, prestige, kudos, rarity, pride of ownership, status...a whole range of complexities. 

A Renault Clio will get a Arab Sheik to the Burj Khalifa just as well as a Bugatti Veyron but which do you think he would prefer to be seen driving?

mgaw

I like expensive guitars as in my experience certainly with acoustics...the great stuff is generally found near the top of the price pile and I need all the help I can get.

chrisj1602

Undeniably you’re paying for a brand name, and also the country of origin, the “USA made is the best” myth especially. I have owned custom shop Fender and Gibsons but the best electric guitars I’ve played for a long have been Eastman.

Maynehead

There are 2 types of expensive guitars. Ones that are made using the same manufacturing processes as less expensive guitars, but have had a big price tag slapped on top of them because they’re a part of a “limited edition” or “special run”; and ones that are hand built by a luthier over the course of weeks or months.

Regardless of whether they sound or play better, one is justifiable, the other is just a ripoff.

dazzajl

I’ve been very fortunate to have owned a Master Built CS Gretsch and a wonderful hand built boutique guitar that are in this group we’re talking about. 

Both were absolutely beautiful creations and I appreciated the time and craft that went in to making them. They both played beautifully, sounded wonderful and looked amazing. 

Neither were ever ever as comfortable to play or just felt as right as in my hands as my beaten up old Mexi Strat that I’d be lucky to get £200 If I sold it. Given that I’m sure to anyone else’s ears I’d sound better playing the guitar I’m more comfortable with, it’s hard to make a logical case for any expensive guitar. But if they bring you happiness, no practical reason is needed surely? 

Twinfan

You're paying for:

1. more expensive components e.g. wood selection, hardware, pickups, nitro finish etc
2. time spent making the instrument the best it can be e.g. neck pocket fit, rolling fingerboards, precision inlays etc

The second point is the big thing - time.  Time costs money and if you're in the US or UK it's expensive.  Add in brand kudos/prestige markup, VAT, import taxes, shipping, distributor profit and retailer profit then you can see how a guitar can easily be over £2k.

RaymondLin

Never played a £4k guitar but a few guitars that I have were at the £3k range when they were new and in particular in the case of PRS, I am not sure what a boutique guitar get you over a normal PRS in terms of build quality.  The quality of wood thing...you can almost say that is a luck of the draw depending what the builder has in stock that moment in time but the build quality is really what distinguishes between them and in case of PRS, I can't see anyone in the industry do it better.

These £4k guitars, say for example if you get a £4k Taylor, you are getting only bling, a 300 series has the same construction and attention in building to it as a 800 series.  a £4k PRS gets wood from their wood library and a different stain, it says nothing of build quality.

I can imagine they are worth it as to the eye of the beholder it always is, but as someone who don't have one....I give it a pass as £2k is where my happy medium is.

BBBlues

thegummy said:

Seeing the "4.5k down to 2.5k" GG sale reminded me - I often wonder how guitars can cost over 2 grand

You seem to be talking about new guitars here. Anything custom shop level or equivalent has been over £2k for the last decade. So if you’re saying 2k is your price cap: 

Fender under 2k: AVRI
Fender over 2k: anything custom shop

Gibson under 2k: LP standard
Gibson over 2k: R8 or R9

If you can’t tell the difference between those guitars then there’s no talking sense.

Used market however is usually about 60% to 80% of new prices. So obviously some of the lower range custom shop stuff comes in under £2k, but not that much tbh.

If you can afford it, and buy well used, expensive guitars hold their value... so it’s not like a £3k guitar is just loosing £3k - it’s more just a transfer of wealth (that’s what I tell my wife anyway!)