Wood quality. MiM v MiA strat

Logie

I've had and played many Mexican and USA Strats. In my experience, even the Classic Player Strats just don't play like a USA Strat. Can't define it and it's not the sound because with the myriad of pickup options out there you can get any Strat to sound how you want. I'm pretty sure I could pick out a USA from a Mexican Strat blindfold just by the feel of the neck but as far as bodies are concerned I'm not sure they have a massive impact on tone or anything else. I've had 5 piece Mexican, 3 piece USA Strats, 1 piece ltd editions, veneered poplar bodied ones from the mid 90's and stick decent pickups in and they'll sound pretty similar I'd imagine. It's all about the quality of the neck and pickups for me.

thegummy

Logie said:

I've had and played many Mexican and USA Strats. In my experience, even the Classic Player Strats just don't play like a USA Strat. Can't define it and it's not the sound because with the myriad of pickup options out there you can get any Strat to sound how you want. I'm pretty sure I could pick out a USA from a Mexican Strat blindfold just by the feel of the neck but as far as bodies are concerned I'm not sure they have a massive impact on tone or anything else. I've had 5 piece Mexican, 3 piece USA Strats, 1 piece ltd editions, veneered poplar bodied ones from the mid 90's and stick decent pickups in and they'll sound pretty similar I'd imagine. It's all about the quality of the neck and pickups for me.

The obvious difference is that the American necks have rolled edges on the fingerboard. Not sure if that's the only real difference but I agree that the American necks generally feel very nice.

I've looked at the price of buying just an American Fender neck and they're literally more expensive than a whole Mexican Fender guitar!

I know they also have the microtilt - is there any other differences in the necks? Do they have different truss rods or anything?

Logie

The rolled edges only really came in with the American series around 2000 I believe ( Can't remember any of my 90's US Strats having rolled edge fingerboards but I may be wrong ) There will be differences in the profile of the necks and the fretwire used ( the Classic player I tried definitely felt like the frets weren't as pronounced ) but other than that I've no idea. 

Philly_Q

The US Standard (now Professional) and Deluxe models have "bi-flex" truss rods.  I think all the MIM models have single action rods, even the ones which are adjustable at the headstock end.

Jez6345789

To the original post from what I see on wood it’s usual the number of pieces used to make the blank, So US 2-3 pieces Mexico 3-6 as said with Veneer to cover. That said the old American Standard and standard plus from the Lace sensor era my mates is a 5 pieces with an Ash veneer. 

From theway the Op is approaching buying Fenders I think it’s time to admit it your not really a Fender  Guy and just build Partscasters.

If you see a Fender you like and it plays and sounds how you want then buy it. For everything else go build a Partscaster.

That way you can spec good wood and all the details you like for MIM money but custom shop quality in terms of spec fit and finish.

thermionic

LastMantra said:

When I think about it, re. the op. Did I read somewhere that the wood used for these was shipped to Mexico from America? ...or did I dream that...? Lovely two piece alder anyway. Reassuringly hefty. 

I think this was only true during the very early days of the Mexico factory/range.

sjo89

Jez6345789 said:

To the original post from what I see on wood it’s usual the number of pieces used to make the blank, So US 2-3 pieces Mexico 3-6 as said with Veneer to cover. That said the old American Standard and standard plus from the Lace sensor era my mates is a 5 pieces with an Ash veneer. 

From theway the Op is approaching buying Fenders I think it’s time to admit it your not really a Fender  Guy and just build Partscasters.

If you see a Fender you like and it plays and sounds how you want then buy it. For everything else go build a Partscaster.

That way you can spec good wood and all the details you like for MIM money but custom shop quality in terms of spec fit and finish.

Actually I'm totally a fender guy and wouldn't have a strat or tele from any other manufacturer. I love the heritage and being part of that history. Just because I try to perfect and hone and improve my own guitars doesn't mean I don't like them. I just cant afford a £1500 guitar sadly. And I dare say, look at all the greats who have and do play fenders (indeed any guitar) and look at how many modded the guitar to their specifications. In fact, what is a custom shop strat if not just a modded one? Only difference being a guy with a fender logo on his tshirt did it instead of your local luthier.

crunchman

thegummy said:

When I look at all the things we know will increase the price of the American ones - the labour is a big one to start with. The fretboard edges are rounded. The tuners and bridges are higher end. The pickups are Custom Shop rather than the basic ceramic ones on the Mexican. And as mentioned above, it comes with a really nice hard case rather than a simple gig bag.

The newer Mexican guitars are Alnico.  I'm pretty sure the higher end Mexican guitars (Classic Series and Classic Player) have always been Alnico.

ICBM

Octafish said:

MikeS said:

Not entirely off topic, just slightly askew...

I've been looking at used MIM Thinline '72 Tele's lately, and right now as we speak there are two for sale, one in Soundaffects, and one at guitarguitar both with extremely squint bridges.

I 'imagine' on the Mexican production line that there's a 'jig' of some sort that bodies are placed in to make placements of the bridge an exact science.

But the guys there seem to be using that Jig with their eyes shut

A 'bit' off...

Hells bells...

Whoa, that's appalling. I had a MIM Classic 50s Strat and the kluson style tuners were a bit wonky in alignment (looking at rear of headstock). Got two MIJ Strats of similar price and the tuners are perfectly aligned.

Philly_Q said:

@MikeS ; I wonder if it's the bridges which are wonky, or the scratchplates?  I'd have thought the holes for the bridge would be drilled quite precisely, whereas scratchplates seem to be attached in a fairly freehand manner.

It does look like it's the bridges, though. 

Sometimes you can loosen the screws, tighten them up in the right order (because one screw might have gone in at a bit of an angle) and it straightens out.

Can't be sure in the first pic, but definetly the bridge on the white one. Look at the bridge relative to the lower pickup and the upper pickup relative to the neck heel.

It’s definitely the bridge on both guitars, you can see that the strings aren’t at right angles to the bridgeplate. Very poor, and I’m genuinely shocked - I’ve never seen anything that bad on a Fender before, from any factory. I thought their QC people cared a bit more - that’s the sort of thing I would expect to only see on a Gibson.

The only way to fix it will be to plug the screw holes with hardwood dowel and redrill correctly. You’ll need to hope it’s not because the string holes through the body are not equally off, as well.

My experience is that apart from the very earliest ones, Mexican Fenders are very well-made - as good as Japanese and non-CS USA ones, but in a more ‘vintage’ way than the modern USA range... a little rougher, but not actually any lower quality, if that makes sense! More like original 50s and 60s Fenders. The modern USA models are more ‘refined’ but seem a little overbuilt and less characterful, to me.

darthed1981

MIA and MIM, both rubbish.

Custom shop = barely acceptable.

The guitar I made by travelling back in time, getting a team of raptors to wind the pickups while I had an expensive team of luthiers hand finish a body from a tree that hasn't existed for millions of years, then I got a T-Rex to spunk on it, that's what you need.

Ultimately, the only way to get a decent guitar is to spend so much money, that most people can't even approach it, then imply it's the only way to get an acceptable instrument.

OR, alternatively....

The MIMs are fine.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

It’s definitely the bridge on both guitars, you can see that the strings aren’t at right angles to the bridgeplate. Very poor, and I’m genuinely shocked - I’ve never seen anything that bad on a Fender before, from any factory. I thought their QC people cared a bit more - that’s the sort of thing I would expect to only see on a Gibson.

@ICBM Some years ago I had an "American Ash Tele" - a short lived model with modern features like the Deluxe six-saddle bridge, sealed tuners, 22 frets etc, but with an ash body and thicker U-shaped neck..

I took the neck off for some reason and found that the holes through the body had all been drilled at wonky angles - not just a bit off, way off, but all just about hidden by the neck plate.  As a result, the holes in the neck were also skewed - one screw fell out after about two turns.

In the end I sold the body as a "project" - it weighed over 6lbs anyway and had a horrible thick finish.  I still have the neck, I redrilled the holes and put threaded steel inserts in.

That's the worst QC I've seen on a Fender.

gordiji

 I just cant afford a £1500 guitar sadly. And I dare say, look at all the greats who have and do play fenders (indeed any guitar) and look at how many modded the guitar to their specifications. In fact, what is a custom shop strat if not just a modded one? Only difference being a guy with a fender logo on his tshirt did it instead of your local luthier.

USA fenders are readily available in perfect condition or close for 700 ish second hand.

ICBM

gordiji said:

I just cant afford a £1500 guitar sadly. And I dare say, look at all the greats who have and do play fenders (indeed any guitar) and look at how many modded the guitar to their specifications. In fact, what is a custom shop strat if not just a modded one? Only difference being a guy with a fender logo on his tshirt did it instead of your local luthier.

USA fenders are readily available in perfect condition or close for 700 ish second hand.

And Mexican Classic series for around £500, or less. I've never personally seen or played a bad one either, although it has to be said those photos above are worrying.

ZenOvertone

The American Specials are a bargain used, jumbo frets, good pickups etc, if you can live with the 70s vibe.  Now superceded by the American Performer series (with appropriate price hike).  My go to Strats are both 2013 AM Standards, from the years they came with CS pickups and the black tolex cases, hard to find one for sale as they were very good IMHO.  The only upgrade I did was fit Kev Hurley steel trem blocks to them and alter the tone control wiring.

thermionic

The neck (I like the shape as well) is what makes me keep my MIM Classic 50s Telecaster:

https://i.imgur.com/nOg6KLT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ow7nUU8.jpg

LastMantra

^ As I said...my MIM Strat has two piece body. It also came with texmex pickups (big quality pots, and decent bits). Did cost as much as an American tho. 
Don't know much about the subject, but surely this means they make a wide range of instruments, higher end being comparable to merkin?

ICBM

The 'Made In USA by Mexicans' thing is true as well by the way - and always was. If you look at the inspection stamps and stickers on Fender guitars and amps going right back to the 1950s, the names are very often Hispanic.

JDE

sjo89 said:

Wow, seems there's not much respect for MiA then? At what price does a significant difference occur then in overall quality? £1500? £2k?

Obviously this varies from guitar to guitar and person to person. I believe that just in terms of the raw wood material, you won’t get much of a step up in terms of tangible quality from a Classic 50’s Telecaster unless you either go CS or to a luthier that picks choice woods. I would probably say the same for Strats, but I have played more 50s style Teles, so that’s my frame of reference. You can have “finest tonewoods” in the world but how much difference does it make if you put a poly finish on it? Dunno, and it is literally impossible to measure anyway. My guitar is pimped MIJ Tele and it is as good as any very good Tele I’ve ever played. And I’ve played some *bloody expensive* guitars. How much is the actual wood relevant? Obviously it’s a different thing to acoustic guitars.

JDE

ICBM said:

The 'Made In USA by Mexicans' thing is true as well by the way - and always was. If you look at the inspection stamps and stickers on Fender guitars and amps going right back to the 1950s, the names are very often Hispanic.

Yeah. A lot of that is sheer location though. California would be on its arse in seconds if Hispanic labour were to stop, whether that’s in 1952 or 2019. Wonder how many early Gibson’s were made by Hispanic people? Doubt the population of Michigan was as diverse as Cali. 

dindude

Recent experience of MIM is a short scale mustang bass - it was a decent instrument - nice neck profile but please for the love of goodness roll the fretboard just a little, it takes no time at all. The pots and switches also needed a constant top up of switch cleaner.

Recent American experience - bought a Am Pro Jazzmaster FSR in Black Friday sale - was over 9lbs in weight so ditched the body for a Warmoth. Term was a piece of crap and basically had to go in the bin. Really nice neck though with a great fretjkb and rounded edges. 

Recent Custom shop experience - bought a NOS last year - fantastic guitar buy does have a weird bit of routing of the term cavety that shouldn’t be there on a £2.5k guitar.

I’m a complete Fender nut but I’m struggling with them at the moment - not a great period for them overall.