Wood quality. MiM v MiA strat

thegummy

crunchman said:

thegummy said:

When I look at all the things we know will increase the price of the American ones - the labour is a big one to start with. The fretboard edges are rounded. The tuners and bridges are higher end. The pickups are Custom Shop rather than the basic ceramic ones on the Mexican. And as mentioned above, it comes with a really nice hard case rather than a simple gig bag.

The newer Mexican guitars are Alnico.  I'm pretty sure the higher end Mexican guitars (Classic Series and Classic Player) have always been Alnico.

I should have mentioned I was meaning "Standard" models; the Mexican vintage reissues are definitely Alnico pickups (and the ones I've heard/own sound good).

Also you're right that the new version of the Standard, the Player, does use Alnico pickups - I don't know if that means the pickups are much better overall or if they're still compromised despite the magnet change.

I just know that I personally think the old Standard ceramic ones sound bad and the Custom Shop and Mexican vintage reissue ones sound good.

thegummy

BTW the whole "made by Mexicans in America" thing is just taking the already racist "country of origin" classification of guitars up a notch.

With Fender it makes sense to talk about Mexican and American because they deliberately split between the factories at a specific price point but anyone who thinks it actually has anything to do with the race of the people making the guitars is ignorant and/or deluded.

It's strange that this idea seems to linger about the guitar world when I'd say I've found musicians to be liberal types in general.

JDE

I hope anyone hasn’t taken my comments on the Mexican labour thing as racism, it was more just a point about how many people who are from Mexico now live and work in California. It’s a bit like how a lot of people from Chepstow end up working and/or living in England. The regions are too close to not invite that type of cross-border migration. The fact is, more people emigrate to America from Mexico than emigrate to Mexico from America. Sorry if I offended anyone. I am definitely not racist. 



 “Some of my best friends are Mexican” etc etc.

thegummy

JDE said:

I hope anyone hasn’t taken my comments on the Mexican labour thing as racism, it was more just a point about how many people who are from Mexico now live and work in California. It’s a bit like how a lot of people from Chepstow end up working and/or living in England. The regions are too close to not invite that type of cross-border migration. The fact is, more people emigrate to America from Mexico than emigrate to Mexico from America. Sorry if I offended anyone. I am definitely not racist. 



 “Some of my best friends are Mexican” etc etc.

I don't think anything you've said could be taken as racist in any way.

It's when people think being made in a certain country is inherently a good or a bad thing.

The title of this thread is basically just asking if the lower half of Fender's range, according to price, has inferior wood - it's just that we know that Fender splits its range like that.

A telling example, which I'm sure I've mentioned before, was when I read a number of comments (in reviews as well as just forum posts) about the low end American Fenders which are about the same price as the high end Mexican Fenders and it talks about "you're getting an American made guitar for under a grand" as if that is a quality in itself.

Ironically, if they're the same price despite the Mexican labour cost being lower, it would suggest the parts may be lower quality on the American-made one.

JDE

thegummy said:

Ironically, if they're the same price despite the Mexican labour cost being lower, it would suggest the parts may be lower quality on the American-made one.

Ding ding ding ding.

Glad I didn’t offend!


Again, definitely not a racist.

Logie

I fear you doth protest too much

sjo89

MiA definitely retain their value better though. I've also always been somewhat sceptical of exactly how much influence the wood actually has on the tone. From my limited experience simply putting in decent pickups and a nice bridge block can transform a guitar. I also think people conflate a guitar that feels nice with one that sounds nice. When people talk about how changing the type of fretwire, bridge saddles, nut material etc. can have a "huge" affect on the tone....maybe all of those factors combined will alter the acoustic resonance a tad? I guess for me, I play in clubs in bands, so as soon as another instrument (let alone 3 and 2 voices) join in, whatever discernible nuances in tone I may have had a quickly swamped and undetectable. 

ICBM

Absolutely nothing racist in my comment. I do not believe skill in building guitars, or anything else, is in any way related to where the person comes from. Where there are differences in the quality of a product from different locations it's because of management requirements, investment in machinery and economics - if you want a factory to make something down to a price point too low to achieve high quality then they will, and it's that which reduces the quality, not the origin of the workers. Labour cost in different countries means that it's the countries with the cheapest labour that will be used to make the lowest-quality products because that's where the biggest savings are made.

This post was brought to you on a highly sophisticated piece of electronics manufactured by extremely skilled workers in China - simply because it's cheaper than doing it in the West.

SNAKEBITE

skunkwerx said:

Theres a lot of speculation out there regarding the lower end Mia line, the Specials / older Highway Ones. 

I'm on my second highway 1.

I had no illusions about its quality, all the work is done in Mexico, then shipped across to the US for stringing so a "Made in 'merica" sticker can be put on it.

I don't care though as I love mine.

skunkwerx

SNAKEBITE said:

skunkwerx said:

Theres a lot of speculation out there regarding the lower end Mia line, the Specials / older Highway Ones. 

I'm on my second highway 1.

I had no illusions about its quality, all the work is done in Mexico, then shipped across to the US for stringing so a "Made in 'merica" sticker can be put on it.

I don't care though as I love mine.

Is this true for the Specials too dya think?

jpfamps

ICBM said:

Absolutely nothing racist in my comment. I do not believe skill in building guitars, or anything else, is in any way related to where the person comes from. Where there are differences in the quality of a product from different locations it's because of management requirements, investment in machinery and economics - if you want a factory to make something down to a price point too low to achieve high quality then they will, and it's that which reduces the quality, not the origin of the workers. Labour cost in different countries means that it's the countries with the cheapest labour that will be used to make the lowest-quality products because that's where the biggest savings are made.

This post was brought to you on a highly sophisticated piece of electronics manufactured by extremely skilled workers in China - simply because it's cheaper than doing it in the West.

And better quality than if it was done in the UK........

ICBM

jpfamps said:

And better quality than if it was done in the UK........

Given the difference between the current Vietnamese and previous UK Marshall DSLs, I would sadly have to agree.