What do you think of sunken strap lock buttons?

Wonky

Is this a thing now?
From a practical point of view it seems a good idea to me, as the one negative with the modern push button strap lock varieties is they seem to stick out a bit much.  To me it can be a good thing that the strap isn't touching the finish on the guitar sometimes as it can't wear it, but the strap feels better if it's closer to the wood, so not sure about that.
The big negative as I see it is drilling out wood to fit them.  There's no standard for strap locks either, so you're then stuck with the one kind for ever.  Also there's the resale value, which will matter unless it's a forever keeper.
Just interested to see what others think on this.
https://youtu.be/rrAtkYwQTz4

octatonic

My pet hate with guitar design is a solution to a problem that is worse than the problem itself.
Strap buttons have only one problem- the strap sometimes works its way off the button.
Grosch washers fix this.

Strap locks of all types are, imho, a worse solution to this.
Recessed buttons too.

Wonky

octatonic said:

My pet hate with guitar design is a solution to a problem that is worse than the problem itself.
Strap buttons have only one problem- the strap sometimes works its way off the button.
Grosch washers fix this.

Strap locks of all types are, imho, a worse solution to this.
Recessed buttons too.

I've done the rubber washer thing myself too.  In fact I think I've used almost every idea and type on the market at some point, so I see where you're coming from.

stickyfiddle

octatonic said:

My pet hate with guitar design is a solution to a problem that is worse than the problem itself.
Strap buttons have only one problem- the strap sometimes works its way off the button.
Grosch washers fix this.

Strap locks of all types are, imho, a worse solution to this.
Recessed buttons too.

Yeah this 100%

Funkfingers

I have them on one bass guitar ... because the manufacturer built the instrument that way. The reduced length of protruding metal mechanisms on the upper horn is nice. The difficulty in removing and replacing the sunken inserts cancels that out.

Wonky

Does everyone hate strap locks then? 
I hate the original Schaller ones.  They used to make a noise when you moved around which came through the pickups with any sort of gain or distortion.
I really like the Ernie Ball strap locks, but I'd like them a lot more if they didn't have Ernie Ball printed on them.  Probably the strongest of the push button variety I've used.
The best for low profile have to be the Loxx ones.  I have them on a very light weight guitars.  The seem very flimsy to me for something heavy though.  Although, I will say I've never had one fail yet.
The Dunlop ones are good for me too.
I personally do like strap locks and I'm sure others do to.  I can't be the only one, can I?  I'm just wondering what others think of the sunken button idea?

Wonky

Funkfingers said:

I have them on one bass guitar ... because the manufacturer built the instrument that way. The reduced length of protruding metal mechanisms on the upper horn is nice. The difficulty in removing and replacing the sunken inserts cancels that out.

Removing the insert?  What for?
I'd never thought about removing it mind.
I'm thinking that at some point I'm probably gonna end up buying a guitar that has this already done.
What system is fitted Mr. Finger?

ICBM

Wonky said:

Does everyone hate strap locks then? 

I'm just wondering what others think of the sunken button idea?

The major problem for the guitar is drilling out a much larger hole than normal so you can't then use any other type of button.

The major problem in use is that if you lose or forget to bring your strap, or if the mechanism fails, you cannot use any other strap or means of support on the guitar as you can if the button is not recessed.

The *only* advantage is that it puts the suspension point closer to the surface of the guitar. But so do Grolsch washers or Dunlop 'Ergo' locks, which I personally prefer to any metal straplock system.

I prefer not to have a metal lump on the strap which can ding the guitar, a mechanism which can fail and disconnect the strap, a suspension point which is too far from the guitar and can bend the screw and crush the finish under the edge of the button, or break the screw, or a false sense of security when the weak point is still the screw holding into the wood.

Snags

I quite line the d'Addario straps with a locking mechanism built in,  but you're very limited for choice (no wide ones). Otherwise plastic washers for me,  mostly because I'm too lazy to fit strap locks,  and to cheap to buy enough for all the straps/guitars.

octatonic

These are £0.24 each too:



https://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=washer&PN=Replacement_Grolsch_type_washer.html#SID=217

Wonky

I'm actually surprised that so many people are against proper strap locks if I'm honest.
Individual taste I know, and I did ask, but for me personally, trusting my many £grands worth of guitar to Grolsch washers is not a thing.  I don't think I'm gonna sink a strap lock on one of my more expensive instruments either though.
I'd really like to try something with sunken lock buttons , like Funkyfingers bass, to see what difference there is.  It might be something to ask for on a custom build in the future, which is sort of the reason for the question in the first place.

mcsdan

I use the dunlop plastic strap locks. Cheap and have never let me down. I find that the metal style strap locks that are aorund (dunlop, fender, schaller etc) make the guitar feel "disconnected" from the strap.

octatonic

Wonky said:

I'm actually surprised that so many people are against proper strap locks if I'm honest.
Individual taste I know, and I did ask, but for me personally, trusting my many £grands worth of guitar to Grolsch washers is not a thing.

Why not?
They work and better than any other solution, imho.

I used to use strap locks- they are a pain in the ass and eventually work their way loose.
Plus you usually can't put the guitar back in the case without taking the strap off.
I've never had a guitar drop with a Grolsch washer and most of the time I don't have to take the strap off to pack the guitar into the case.

I've had Schaller and Dunlop strap locks work their way loose mid gig on several occasions.
If it ain't broke...

Wonky

mcsdan said:

I use the dunlop plastic strap locks. Cheap and have never let me down. I find that the metal style strap locks that are aorund (dunlop, fender, schaller etc) make the guitar feel "disconnected" from the strap.

I've used them too.  Work well until manufactured started making the buttons bigger and then they no longer fitted.

Wonky

octatonic said:

Wonky said:

I'm actually surprised that so many people are against proper strap locks if I'm honest.
Individual taste I know, and I did ask, but for me personally, trusting my many £grands worth of guitar to Grolsch washers is not a thing.

Why not?
They work and better than any other solution, imho.

I used to use strap locks- they are a pain in the ass and eventually work their way loose.
Plus you usually can't put the guitar back in the case without taking the strap off.
I've never had a guitar drop with a Grolsch washer and most of the time I don't have to take the strap off to pack the guitar into the case.

I've had Schaller and Dunlop strap locks work their way loose mid gig on several occasions.
If it ain't broke...

Honestly, really good news if the rubber washers work for you.  Wish I had your faith.
In the past I have trusted many thousands of pounds of guitar to rubber washers and they did work, mostly, but I like having something that's made for the job and feels like it add something to experience too (not talking about mojo here).  At the time I didn't have a choice as nothing else was around, apart from those original Schaller things that made a noise.
The washer aren't infallible either though.  That thing where you lift your guitar high in the air with your left hand (other hands are available) whilst bending 'that' note at the dusty end (not dusty on any of my guitars mind) at the end of your solo.  It didn't fall on the floor, but in my special moment it came off.  Stayed in my hand, but still failed. I could have put it on wrong in the heat of the moment but I've never done it with any of the other solution, it happened none the less.  I personally haven't had any of my modern Strap locks fail.  Luck, who knows, but the actual fact that anyone buys these things at all is testament enough that these things work fine for many.  I'm not doubting that the washers work well for you, just that they don't work for everyone.  I personally would never have looked for an alternative if I felt confident in the washers, but there's a solution for everyone out there and more power to them.
Can you imagine doing a Vai swing around your neck with out a proper lock?  I can't imagine what would posses me to do one to start with mind, but it could be an amazing comedy moment.  I've seen it on YouTube I'm sure, funny to watch, but actually a very bad thing.
Any how it's not really about whether there's alternatives to metal strap locks, it's about whether sunken ones are a thing.  I haven't currently got anything with sunken buttons on, but I am interested in the pros and cons of the submarine buttons so to speak.

Rocker

A well made strap with 'strong firm' fixing ends combined with using bass string retainers as strap buttons, results in a very secure guitar/strap assembly.

terada

I use these, about £2 each and come with a free beer

mart

The grolsch washers work in addition to the usual way a strap holds onto the button, so you’ve effectively got one mechanical attachment reinforced by a second.

Any straplock system is one mechanical arrangement holding the strap in place and, if it fails, then the guitar falls. I’ve used straplocks long enough to see the locking mechanism wear down to the point where failure is only a matter of time.

Some of the straplock systems can be used with the lock not attached to the strap - place the strap on the button as normal, and then attach the straplock after. That would give something like the double level of protection that grolsch gives you. But the sunken straplock system won’t allow that.

I guess if you’re really nervous you could use the Dunlop system, place the strap on the button as normal, put a grolsch washer over that, and then clip on the Dunlop straplock on top. You’d have to be pretty unlucky for that to come off!

HAL9000

I've had the Dunlop ones fail once or twice. Grolsch washers IME seem to be completely reliable.

drwiddly

octatonic said:

My pet hate with guitar design is a solution to a problem that is worse than the problem itself.
Strap buttons have only one problem- the strap sometimes works its way off the button.
Grosch washers fix this.

Strap locks of all types are, imho, a worse solution to this.
Recessed buttons too.

This!!!

I've tried all sorts of strap buttons and strap locks over the years and nothing works better than a couple of Grolsch washers.

prowla

I’ve got them on a couple of Warwick basses, but I may convert them to normal.