Best cheap PAF type pickup?

Calum13

Hi all. I’ve been wanting to upgrade the pickups on my epiphone sheraton for a while now and was going to get custom filtertrons, but as it’s my only humbucker guitar I thought I’d get PAF style pickups. What do you guys recommend? I prefer low output pickups. I’m prioritising the neck pickup as I don’t mind how the bridge sounds but think the neck has too much bass, even after I’ve adjusted it. It also has to be available with gold covers.

thomasw88

Vanson, Irongear, Tonerider.

They're all bloody excellent and I say that as a recovered pickup junkie..

Grumpyrocker

Iron Gear pickups are fantastic, I've used them on several guitars.

Calum13

I think I made a thread a while back asking if tonerider pickups are any good and everyone spoke quite highly of them and others recommended the iron gear blues engine. Not sure if I’d go with the ac2 or AC4 tonerider though.

Alegree

Are we talking a PAF with plain enamel wire? Those made in China ones above don't use plain enamel. 

If we're talking PAF type as in low output humbucker, I'm sure they're all great.

jdbwales

Iron Gear Blues Engines, all day long.

baldy

Irongear around £60 odd a pair or for about £35 odd a pair, Vanson 59 Alnico V PAF"s (available with gold covers) which I have put in one of my LP copies & personally think they sound great 

The Vansons are Bridge 8.3k & Neck 7.3k & 4 wire so can be split if you want.
Fantastic value IMO & were recommended to me on here last year.
Another budget brand worth looking at IMO are Entwistle of which I also have a set in a guitar.

PonchoGreg

Alegree said:

Are we talking a PAF with plain enamel wire? Those made in China ones above don't use plain enamel. 

If we're talking PAF type as in low output humbucker, I'm sure they're all great.

I thought irongear used enamel? Or is there a difference between enamel and plain enamel?

Alegree

PonchoGreg said:

Alegree said:

Are we talking a PAF with plain enamel wire? Those made in China ones above don't use plain enamel. 

If we're talking PAF type as in low output humbucker, I'm sure they're all great.

I thought irongear used enamel? Or is there a difference between enamel and plain enamel?

Unless it's specifically named as plain enamel, it's not going to be plain enamel. It's far more expensive and a big selling point than a poly wire. Enamelled wire isn't the same thing as a plain enamel coating.

victorludorum

The cover is probably not helping the neck pickup much. Have you tried removing it, melting the (probably) tons of wax and then playing with the pole pieces to reduce the bass? You can buy covers that are made of better materials and don't cut those highs that you're looking for.

p90fool

victorludorum said:

The cover is probably not helping the neck pickup much. Have you tried removing it, melting the (probably) tons of wax and then playing with the pole pieces to reduce the bass? You can buy covers that are made of better materials and don't cut those highs that you're looking for.

I was just going to post exactly this, it's the most radical difference you can make to Epi humbuckers.

They probably already are low output alnico magnet pickups with a sound somewhere in the PAF ballpark, but you can't hear it because their thick brass covers kill the top end. 

Calum13

What covers do you guys recommend that are good quality? When adjusting pole pieces should I do them all or just do the bass side to make it less bassy sounding.

OilCityPickups

Alegree said:

PonchoGreg said:

Alegree said:

Are we talking a PAF with plain enamel wire? Those made in China ones above don't use plain enamel. 

If we're talking PAF type as in low output humbucker, I'm sure they're all great.

I thought irongear used enamel? Or is there a difference between enamel and plain enamel?

Unless it's specifically named as plain enamel, it's not going to be plain enamel. It's far more expensive and a big selling point than a poly wire. Enamelled wire isn't the same thing as a plain enamel coating.

What @Alegree means is that pretty much all single build magnet wire is referred to as 'plain enamel' in the wire trade. The brown to brownish-black stuff that you are used to associating with high quality PAFs is very specifically PVA plain enamel wire rather than polyester coated plain enamel wire. 
PVA plain enamel wire used to be easy to tell apart from poly coated: poly was golden to honey colour, the PVA plain enamel: brown to black ... simple. Oh and it costs three to four times the price of poly!
Unfortunately no longer so: a fair while ago I was informed by my wire suppliers that it's possible to dye poly any colour you want at manufacture ... in fact I use red died poly quite a lot nowadays. They also told me that if I wanted 'PVA brown' coloured poly wire they could supply it to bulk order! Now seeing as that wire was going to be manufactured in the Far East ... I personally wouldn't set too much store by a low end manufacturer claiming they use plain enamel wire and that wire being brown in colour. 

That having been said, it's perfectly possible to wind an acceptable PAF style pickup with poly wire ,,, and in fact it's often the better choice of wire for higher output pickups. I'm really not a 'PVA plain enamel snob'  I use it where it's appropriate. 

victorludorum

Calum13 said:

What covers do you guys recommend that are good quality? When adjusting pole pieces should I do them all or just do the bass side to make it less bassy sounding.

I think nickel, or German silver, or something like that. Axesrus and others do a range that'll be fine I think. They have some blurb on their site about them too.

The technique often seems to consist of lowering the pickup body, raising the polepieces to taste. It's a bit trial and error I think, but it's worth a go before you change them. There are some vids on YouTube I believe.

mark123

are irongear better than tonerider? i loved the tonerider rocksongs but the double black are out of stock everywhere but their seem more love for the irongears ..which ones for a pistols,manics,oasis type sound ?

Johnnyseven

mark123 said:

are irongear better than tonerider? i loved the tonerider rocksongs but the double black are out of stock everywhere but their seem more love for the irongears ..which ones for a pistols,manics,oasis type sound ?

I've had a Tonerider Alnico II and IV Classic and an Irongear Tesla Shark and Blues Engine in the necks of my teles and I much preferred the Irongears.

baldy

I tried Tonerider Rocksongs which TBF were OK but I think the 2 sets of Irongears I have sound better IMO.

mark123

baldy said:

I tried Tonerider Rocksongs which TBF were OK but I think the 2 sets of Irongears I have sound better IMO.

what sets were they ?

baldy

Hot slag & Rollin Mill for more gainy rock & Blues engine combo for more classic PAF tones.
TBH I also prefer the Vanson 59"s for classic PAF tones over the Toneriders but obviously everyone has their own preferences & I am not knocking Toneriders just giving my personal preference.

rossi

As I dont (never)have any actual PAF,s I can really say but Tonerider Rocksongs (overwound A2? )are a very good sounding  set that cover most uses .The A2 Tonerider set are very near Gibson Burstbuckers which are A2  .I have  a set of BB 's  in my Midtown and a set of A2,s in a strat HH and the sound was pretty near with some more umph on the Midtown .For me the jazzier bluesier a2 type pickup fit my playing needs where as a hotter a5 may well be your squeeze .I reckon Rocksongs will fit most jobs  but thats just my style .The Iron gear do sound interesting as there is a Tele waiting for one but I also love its van Zandt bridge so dont want to spoil the mix with changing the caps etc.Maybe a p90 instead .Vansons sound interesting .Having been a coil winder in the last century I do know most of its all froth.

Henrytwang

p90fool said:

victorludorum said:

The cover is probably not helping the neck pickup much. Have you tried removing it, melting the (probably) tons of wax and then playing with the pole pieces to reduce the bass? You can buy covers that are made of better materials and don't cut those highs that you're looking for.

I was just going to post exactly this, it's the most radical difference you can make to Epi humbuckers.

They probably already are low output alnico magnet pickups with a sound somewhere in the PAF ballpark, but you can't hear it because their thick brass covers kill the top end. 

Me too! Getting rid of the covers and excessive wax can work wonders with Epiphone Alnico humbucking pickups. Just remove the covers and gently melt out some of that over done wax with a heat gun on the lower setting.