Clapton...

Philly_Q

Bridgehouse said:

rlw said:

Without Clapton, how many of us would be posting on here.

On this thread? Again, probably all of us - mostly posting “who?” 

None of us, because there'd be no thread.

Unless it was about Clapton in East London.  And then it'd be not many of us, and it'd be in Off Topic.

Bridgehouse

Philly_Q said:

Bridgehouse said:

rlw said:

Without Clapton, how many of us would be posting on here.

On this thread? Again, probably all of us - mostly posting “who?” 

None of us, because there'd be no thread.

Unless it was about Clapton in East London.  And then it'd be not many of us, and it'd be in Off Topic.

I dunno, Clapton may be a popular subject - maybe we need more threads like “Barnet” or “Walthamstow”

Kilgore

One of the issues here appears to be how do we judge an artist? Is it based on a lifetimes work or a short period of creativity? Is some degree of popularity essential?

I think a comparison with novelists is quite illuminating. Harper Lee and J D Salinger both wrote only one novel. Are they great writers? In my opinion yes
.James Joyce is considered one of the greatest writers in the English language. How many people have read him? Mostly English lit undergraduates. 

For me it wouldn't have mattered if Clapton had retired after the Beano album, he would still be a great guitarist and I don't and can't expect him to be doing the same 20, 30 or 50 years later. 

Danielsguitars

Bridgehouse said:

I dunno, Clapton may be a popular subject - maybe we need more threads like “Barnet” or “Walthamstow”

I loved Walthamstow when i was a kid and the first mcdonalds i ever ate was by the station, my best friends dad owned the pub, couldn't have been more than 10 yrs old, life was simple, wouldn't have gone near clapton though 

darthed1981

Danielsguitars said:

life was simple, wouldn't have gone near clapton though 

To be fair, a lot of people stayed away from him after him jumped on stage coked up shouting about how Enoch Powell was right and we should stop Britain becoming a "black colony"...

Danny Baker's favourite gig of all time though...

Or are you still talking the place near Haringay?

rlw

Bridgehouse said:

rlw said:

Without Clapton, how many of us would be posting on here.

On this forum? All of us. No one single guitarist made the guitar what it is today. And no one single guitarist’s efforts were fundamental to it’s popularity.

On this thread? Again, probably all of us - mostly posting “who?” 

I was wondering how many of us were inspired by EC to pick up the guitar in the first place and, otherwise, wouldn’t ever have started.  
I was introduced to Robert Johnson in 1964, aged 12, but it was only through seeing EC play Crossroads that I thought I might like to have a go at that.  I imagine many of the members here will have had similar lightbulb moments.

UnclePsychosis

He's clearly influential but as far as I'm concerned his music, along with most of that of the so-called "guitar gods" is turgid to the point of being unlistenable. 

The best thing I can say about him is that him being a noisy racist dickhead helped influence Rock Against Racism. 

TTBZ

His playing or music he's involved with never really did anything for me. Always think of him as a boring dad-rocker/bloozer.

Wolfetone

I think that from our perspective as guitar players, we judge him differently. Your average non-player will be hearing something else such as the lyrics or his singing style. 

fretfinder

Danielsguitars said:

Still gets boring pretty quick, i try and listen to more new crap music than old good stuff

FTFY! 

TTBZ

Wolfetone said:

Your average non-player will be hearing something else such as the lyrics or his singing style. 

The singing and music style in general is probably what I dislike about his stuff I'm not denying his influence and ability, just one of those people I've always found to be a bit vanilla.

stickyfiddle

Philly_Q said:

Bridgehouse said:

rlw said:

Without Clapton, how many of us would be posting on here.

On this thread? Again, probably all of us - mostly posting “who?” 

None of us, because there'd be no thread.

Unless it was about Clapton in East London.  And then it'd be not many of us, and it'd be in Off Topic.

I don't buy that for a second, and honestly it's a really blinkered view. 

Guitar would be different, but the likes of Elvis, Buddy Holly, Hank Marvin, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Kinks, and The Who were all around well before the Beano album came out and "changed everything" as so many would have it. 

I'm in no doubt that the Beano record (and Clapton's output over the following decade or so) was hugely influential, but to argue that without him the guitar as an instrument wouldn't be popular is genuinely laughable (sorry!). Clapton is touted as "the first guy to get a Marshall and crank it", but even if that's true there are countless examples of distortion in some form or other on record well before the Beano's release - pretty much all of Revolver, You Really Got Me, My Generation, Satisfaction, etc etc. 

Clapton helped move the whole thing forward a little but to suggest he's responsible for the success of an entire genre completely is just daft. 

fretfinder

ESBlonde said:

I don't put myself in the Clapton fan club, I've never listened to the whole Beano album or seen him live. I own 461 Ocean boulevard (vinyl in the loft) and August on CD somewhere.

The phrase "Standing on the shoulders of giant" keeps springing to mind though.

Does anyone remember who was the second person to fly across the Atlantic, or the second person to scale everest, we only remember Scott of the antarctic becuase he was the englishman, the rest of the world know Ademsen as the man.

There had been Link Wray, Dick Dale, Les Paul, Joe Brown, Chuck Berry, Bert Weedon, Hank Marvin, Scotty Moore, Chet Atkins etc. all active and famous before Clapton. No doubt they had some influence on him as a young player. But EC was influential on other guitar players around London and abroad before he was a household name. He was called slowhand because when he broke those thin banjo strings (frequently as it happens), he would have to restring - no spare guitar in those days, and he was given a 'slow hand clap' while everyone waited on him.

Cream were so called because everyone thought the members were the cream of thier profession at the time. There was no second choice for any of the positions, it was all about waiting for them all to be available to start the project.

Clapton always considerred himself just a journeyman guitarist and tried to shun the mantal of guitar god, this was part of the problem that led to his abuse of substances after cream.

It's said when Clapton first saw Hendrix he thought about giving up breifly. But Hendrix had no following until that time and Clapton was already referred to as god.

Clapton was the first and iirc only 'famous' musician to be invited to record by and with the Beatles (you might have heard of them).

Ask people in the street to name a great guitarist and I suspect Clapton is right up there despite the fact that he's no great front man publicist.

He's also one of the few that can gather huge numbers of musicians on stage at the same time just by inviting them. the crossroads festival being a case in point and he frequently got invited to guest with other band and musicians.

You might not think of him as one of the greats, but it seems a lot of people do, is it just possible that thats what makes him great?

Well said. Thread over.

ICBM

The Enoch Powell racist rant incident is something I’d always been uncomfortable with - many of the musicians involved in Rock Against Racism were more what I liked than Clapton was, at the time - and I never felt he’d properly apologised for it, but watching the ‘Life In 12 Bars’ documentary changed my mind.

Not only was his alcoholism and his drunken state that night far worse than I’d realised, but the impression I got from the interview is that he was so ashamed and embarrassed by what he did that he didn’t think he could talk about it publicly without being seen as insincere. That he had personally apologised to the black musicians who were his friends and who continued working with him made me think that’s the truth, rather than just an excuse.

Fifty9

stickyfiddle said:

Philly_Q said:

Bridgehouse said:

rlw said:

Without Clapton, how many of us would be posting on here.

On this thread? Again, probably all of us - mostly posting “who?” 

None of us, because there'd be no thread.

Unless it was about Clapton in East London.  And then it'd be not many of us, and it'd be in Off Topic.

I don't buy that for a second, and honestly it's a really blinkered view. 

Guitar would be different, but the likes of Elvis, Buddy Holly, Hank Marvin, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Kinks, and The Who were all around well before the Beano album came out and "changed everything" as so many would have it. 

I'm in no doubt that the Beano record (and Clapton's output over the following decade or so) was hugely influential, but to argue that without him the guitar as an instrument wouldn't be popular is genuinely laughable (sorry!). Clapton is touted as "the first guy to get a Marshall and crank it", but even if that's true there are countless examples of distortion in some form or other on record well before the Beano's release - pretty much all of Revolver, You Really Got Me, My Generation, Satisfaction, etc etc. 

Clapton helped move the whole thing forward a little but to suggest he's responsible for the success of an entire genre completely is just daft. 

Do you not think that ‘that cranked Marshall + Les Paul’ was the spark that massively moved the direction of blues/hard rock. Indeed was it not that moment that give birth to the latter? For that alone his influence is massive. Then you have Layla, then you’ve got the unplugged album.

For me they’re huge moments that drove the course/trajectory of popular guitar and guitar-based music.

His influence on other guitarists from Hendrix onwards can’t be understated. Many of the greats around and after him cite him as a major inspiration.

Sure you can trace his own roots to the 3 kings and Johnson but he changed things with the Beano album no doubt about it.

stickyfiddle

Fifty9 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Philly_Q said:

Bridgehouse said:

rlw said:

Without Clapton, how many of us would be posting on here.

On this thread? Again, probably all of us - mostly posting “who?” 

None of us, because there'd be no thread.

Unless it was about Clapton in East London.  And then it'd be not many of us, and it'd be in Off Topic.

I don't buy that for a second, and honestly it's a really blinkered view. 

Guitar would be different, but the likes of Elvis, Buddy Holly, Hank Marvin, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Kinks, and The Who were all around well before the Beano album came out and "changed everything" as so many would have it. 

I'm in no doubt that the Beano record (and Clapton's output over the following decade or so) was hugely influential, but to argue that without him the guitar as an instrument wouldn't be popular is genuinely laughable (sorry!). Clapton is touted as "the first guy to get a Marshall and crank it", but even if that's true there are countless examples of distortion in some form or other on record well before the Beano's release - pretty much all of Revolver, You Really Got Me, My Generation, Satisfaction, etc etc. 

Clapton helped move the whole thing forward a little but to suggest he's responsible for the success of an entire genre completely is just daft. 

Do you not think that ‘that cranked Marshall + Les Paul’ was the spark that massively moved the direction of blues/hard rock. Indeed was it not that moment that give birth to the latter? For that alone his influence is massive. Then you have Layla, then you’ve got the unplugged album.

For me they’re huge moments that drove the course/trajectory of popular guitar and guitar-based music.

His influence on other guitarists from Hendrix onwards can’t be understated. Many of the greats around and after him cite him as a major inspiration.

Sure you can trace his own roots to the 3 kings and Johnson but he changed things with the Beano album no doubt about it.

No. I don't think there was a single "spark" - there were tens if not hundreds of guys doing similar things at the time. I don't believe for a second that Woodstock, Isle of Wight, etc wouldn't have happened.  There were plenty of other people doing similar thing that collective led to the 70's and what we now think of as "classic rock". People talk as if had Clapton not strapped on a Les Paul then literally everything else would have ceased to exist. 

I'm not saying Clapton wasn't a big part of that - that would be silly and just as blinkered. But there were shitloads of other guys doing things with guitars and amps and fuzzboxes, to the point that I cannot fathom that guitar music as a concept would have been significantly less popular had he not been there at the time. God knows I'd be fine in a world without white-man-blues from Bonamassa et al, and maybe that would have been the result, but we'd still have had a huge number of noisy rockbands.

Take out Elvis, Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry and The Beatles and thing would have been *vastly* more different. 

Voxman

Womantone - nuff said 

mudslide73

This thread has taken a turn towards towards Back to the future and the space time continuum. It's impossible to know what would have happened. Maybe there was someone waiting on the bench to take similar opportunities... we'll never know. 

Nikc

Eric Clapton is a major international recording artist who has influenced countless guitarist that have come after, him his longevity only is a testament to his talents. He has sold 100 million albums worldwide. He had a massive influence on the Blues one that was opening acknowledged and celebrated by many of the African American greats. You could argue (as the industry does) that his unplugged set gave rebirth to the acoustic guitar. His covers of JJ Cale, Bob Marley and lets not forget the great Blues covers - opened up audiences to music they had not thought of - I think he is a Titan within music and can only really been seen as such.

For the record I'm not a fan but I'm also not a total moron either

SNAKEBITE

Clapton always passed me by.

I was too young for the Beano/Cream/etc etc music and was into other stuff when he had his other pahase during the 90's.

It wasn't until "life in 12 bars" came on iplayer that I started to learn something about him.

Not a great fan, he's obviously got some skills and talent but apart from the odd toe dipping excursion I can't see me becoming a fan boy any time soon.