Gibson R8/9?

Logie

I'm toying with the idea of a Historic Les Paul and I'm fairly au fait on values of Studios, Classics, Standards etc. but I've never tried to scale the dizzy heights of a custom shop. Any recommendations as to what I should consider up to £3000 and a rough opinion of what I should expect to pay?  

Logie

Just to add, I'm not looking for it as an investment but I'd like to get most of my money back if and when I sold it

HandwrittenHero

£3000 will get you either an R8 or an R9 used. Generally expect £2000 for a well loved R8 and £3000 for an R9. May vary depending on finish, wear/tear and year.

Every year has something different to it, worth doing a search for that year when you see a model you like. Decide whether you want as accurate as possible or not too fussed. People seem less likely to mod the more recent ones with custombuckers etc, but equally an old one represents good value if you expect you’ll swap electronics, pups etc.

Do definitely go and play before you buy. They’re still guitars, still built and there’s not magic as such - it’s still possible to get a guitar that just doesn’t have “it” so you’d want to be sure.

Logie

Thanks for that. I'd never buy before playing at that price! Why do the R9's go for so much more money than the R8's? You'd think the attention to detail should be the same. Aren't they just reissues from different years?
 

Whitecat

Logie said:

Thanks for that. I'd never buy before playing at that price! Why do the R9's go for so much more money than the R8's? You'd think the attention to detail should be the same. Aren't they just reissues from different years?
 

Usually it’s because the tops are more highly figured, the backs come from a slightly lighter stash, and the neck carve is often seen as preferable. As of last year R9s had bigger fretwire too. For many, 59s are seen as the “holy grail” where all the specs coalesced into something greater than the sum of its parts. 

But, as there is so much spec variation from year to year, it’s possible to find any or all of the above on an R8 too - there are some with figured tops, some with R9 neck carves (the 2017 models that this forum went apesh*t for were an example of that) - and R8s can still be “light” being that wood is an organic thing and Gibson’s pile will vary as time goes on. Basically, there are plenty of examples of R8s out there that are virtually identical to any given R9 save for the serial number and the COA...

Ossyrocks

Logie said:

Thanks for that. I'd never buy before playing at that price! Why do the R9's go for so much more money than the R8's? You'd think the attention to detail should be the same. Aren't they just reissues from different years?
 

Post 2013 reissues are generally more expensive as they are perceived to be slightly better/accurate. The 2017 run was a pinnacle for value for money, as many here will attest. 

The R9 markup is simply a nicer top.

Rob

Logie

I do like a nice flametop but not sure I'd pay a £1000 premium. I think I need to go to PMT and see if they have any in stock I can compare to see which neck I prefer. The 59 rounded on the Standards and Studios is my favourite Les Paul neck ( so far ) Cheers guys. 

Whitecat

Good luck. Be warned that the Gibson Custom experience will spoil you - I really do think the stuff they are making is on another level to Gibson USA and I just can’t go back...

TINMAN82

Whitecat said:

Good luck. Be warned that the Gibson Custom experience will spoil you - I really do think the stuff they are making is on another level to Gibson USA and I just can’t go back...

Think that’s true of Les Pauls. For some models (like the 2019 Firebird I recently got and probably SGs) I wouldn’t pay for a custom shop.

But yeah, for Les Pauls I think it’s worth it for better attention to detail, one piece body etc. And for me personally the Les Paul is the most aspirational guitar to own.

Logie

I've had a couple of Studios including a cracking '93 Studio Lite but most of my Les Pauls have been Standards or Standard Plus and the best one's were two '03's and a '95 Standard Plus. If the Custom stuff is significantly better than those I'd be a happy man. 

TINMAN82

Logie said:

I've had a couple of Studios including a cracking '93 Studio Lite but most of my Les Pauls have been Standards or Standard Plus and the best one's were two '03's and a '95 Standard Plus. If the Custom stuff is significantly better than those I'd be a happy man. 

I guess that depends on whether you like the spec first and foremost as the models you mention likely have significantly thinner necks than both R8s and many R9s. 

The 2017 R8s are touted to have R9 necks but I’m not sure that applies to the few I tried in guitarguitar during the blow out, they were rather huge.

I had a (?2008) studio from eBay a few years back with a lovely “59 rounded” profile. Should’ve kept it actually. Was full but definitely slimmer than any 58/9 historic I’ve tried.

Ossyrocks

TINMAN82 said:

Logie said:

I've had a couple of Studios including a cracking '93 Studio Lite but most of my Les Pauls have been Standards or Standard Plus and the best one's were two '03's and a '95 Standard Plus. If the Custom stuff is significantly better than those I'd be a happy man. 

I guess that depends on whether you like the spec first and foremost as the models you mention likely have significantly thinner necks than both R8s and many R9s. 

The 2017 R8s are touted to have R9 necks but I’m not sure that applies to the few I tried in guitarguitar during the blow out, they were rather huge.

I had a (?2008) studio from eBay a few years back with a lovely “59 rounded” profile. Should’ve kept it actually. Was full but definitely slimmer than any 58/9 historic I’ve tried.

I have three 2017’s and the necks are consistently ‘59 profile. The profile is simply perfect for me, and very similar to the genuine ‘59 necks I’ve played.

Logie

I'll definitely have to play them anyway but I did think they would be similar to the 59 rounded necks. I've had a '50's neck Standard and that was quite comfortable for me. 

crunchman

They removed the rubber sheath around the truss rod a while back (I think about 5 or 6 years ago).  The ones after that change are perceived to be slightly better.

Having said that, you can find good ones and not so good ones from any year, and you might be able to get an older one for a little less.

Do play before buying.  Some are better than others.

If you really want a nice figured top, then save up for an R9.  I had an R8 for a while, and there was always that nagging thought at the back of my mind that it would be nice to have an R9 one day.

terada

Some great advice here. just a couple of things to add:

- 2012 models tend to go for less due to the fretboards not being one piece. Whether it makes a difference or not tonally is anyone's guess, but be aware that it matters to some, hence the price difference.

- A great les Paul can be light or heavy, but should balance well on the knee. Many tend to be body heavy and want to fall down to the right of your knee when seated. General thinking is that they should weigh between around 8.5 and 9.5 lbs. Non Chambered lighter ones are often deemed as especially desirable and therefore may sell quicker, this is something that a lot of people have opinions on, but again matters to some.

- Of the ones that have been through my hands, the R9 profile is quite different to a 50s USA profile, but a fair bit slimmer than a typical R8. As mentioned above, they are enough variances through the years to mean you could get an R9 profile on an R8 if you wished.

- If you did like a slimmer profile, check out an R0. These have the same specs (and same price range) as an R9, but with a thinner 60s profile. I haven't played loads of these, but of the ones I've played they've been closer to a USA 50s thickness than a USA 60s.

- On that note, there are more out there than just R8s and 9s. There are historic models covering the developments in les paul design through the 50s. These tend to sell for less than the R8s 9s and 0s.

- There are also variables on the main models themselves, including chambered lightweight models that carry a 'C' prefix on the serial number. 

- Lastly, Gibson get a lot of flack for little QC issues, alongside bigger problems. While in my experience bigger problems have been few and far between, the little issues are often found on loads of instruments, including custom shop stuff. If you're not bothered by these things, a good historic can be a thing of absolute beauty. If you can't abide that sort of thing, they could eat away at you. Again, lots of opinion on this topic.

- Overall though, having owned too many les pauls, the best thing to do is to go out and see if one resonates with you. When it does, it can be a very lovely thing indeed.

Good luck

Fifty9

If you desire a custom shop, get a custom shop. After that it’s all about the one that speaks to you most when you have it in your hands. 

bgmartinsbridge

I'm going to be contentious and say the R8 2017 necks are not similar to R9.

I had a 2016 R9 and 2017 R8 - the R8 neck felt slightly thicker and more of a U shape imo. 

Guessing there is variance/ tolerance but just my thoughts. Oh and the R9 just felt and played better. 

Whitecat

bgmartinsbridge said:

I'm going to be contentious and say the R8 2017 necks are not similar to R9.

I had a 2016 R9 and 2017 R8 - the R8 neck felt slightly thicker and more of a U shape imo. 

Guessing there is variance/ tolerance but just my thoughts. Oh and the R9 just felt and played better. 

They are meant to be, though. R4s, R6s, R7s, R8s and R9s allegedly all got the R9 neck. Only the R0 was meant to be different (slimmer). 

Figure it must just be sample variation from the hand-sanding at the end that’s causing the discrepancy. My R8 has virtually the same neck feel as my CC10 Tom Scholz model (a ‘68 RI) which (as described) has a ‘Tom Scholz’ carve but digging into guitar lore, Tom thinks that his Mighty Mouse guitar has a “leftover” 59 neck - or at least a shape which is dead similar to most 59s. Thicker/fatter than most 68s, anyway. 

I have another 2017 R8 inbound this week so will be interesting to compare that as well... it’s a bit of an oddball one...

Logie

I didn't realise there'd be such a variance

guitars4you

Logie said:

I didn't realise there'd be such a variance

The easy answer is there are subtle variations in all of them - From what ever year of production - Never quite sure how you can pick a winner from the spec alone - The usual hands on test drive will always tell you which your hands 'n' ears prefer

Between £2500 and £3500 there is no shortage of replicas to try - Be it private or in dealers - IMO don't get hung up at this stage try to evaluate the merits of a 2011 against a 2016 etc - Just try a few - Take your time but be prepared to strike and buy if something just grabs you

TeleMaster

Logie said:

Just to add, I'm not looking for it as an investment but I'd like to get most of my money back if and when I sold it

None of these guitars are investments. If you want to get your money back if you sell it the only way is to wait for a model priced at the lower end and to try and grab as best a bargain as possible.