Diminishing returns set in early?

Matt_McG

I had a slightly depressing guitar shopping experience yesterday. The shop and staff were fine (helpful), and I'd go back to buy from there, if they had something I wanted.

But, I don't think they did.

I'll be spending soon, prices up to and around 2-2.5K ish, and what I was looking for is something which is maybe a bit more player friendly -- in terms of lower action, a more refined neck feel, etc. -- without being a toothpick neck/totally flat board shred machine. Other than that, my mind was open. Strat style, T-style, off-set, super strat, whatever.

A couple of years ago, I played, at different times, a couple of higher end Framuses (Panthera, and a Diablo) and a team-built CS Fender, and both had a feel in the hands -- neck, frets, etc -- where I could see where my money was going. Both made it easy for me to play and sound better.

But, with the except of a James Tyler guitar, and maybe a PRS CE, genuinely, nothing up to about 2.5K felt better than the Korean ASAT I already own. Now, admittedly, that guitar has had a proper setup in the past (fret dress, etc), has a lot of playing time in it, the rosewood board has been treated well, etc. so it's a pretty nice example of a budget-to-mid-price Korean guitar can play like.

But, I'd easily expect if I was spending 2.5K, to be in the ballpark of something a lot better, and in most cases, I couldn't see where the extra 2K was going, in any way, and there were several 2K guitars that were absolutely worse.

So, the search continues.

darthed1981

imalrightjack

Are you considering second hand? £2-2.5k will snag you a wonderful PRS/Tom Anderson/Suhr. With change left over.

Matt_McG

Yeah, second hand is fine. I guess the worry is, I tried a few Suhrs yesterday, admittedly, not at the higher end of the range (which I could probably stretch to if going 2nd hand), and, they didn't really do anything for me.

I do like the look of the Tom Andersons, though.

I have a suspicion I need to keep looking.

merciful-evans

You might not find the extra 2k value you are looking for. Both my MIK guitars are every bit as capable and well built as the higher end USA & UK ones. 

They are a PRS SE Custom 24 and a Squier Esprit. The PRS has needed no mods. The Squier has been rewired & had hardwear upgrades. 

Enjoy the quest though...

ICBM

Diminishing returns set in as soon as you get above budget models these days, and certainly any Korean-made guitar from the last 20 years.

You can certainly get better guitars, but a £2.5K guitar is only going to be marginally better than a £500 one no matter how you define it.

Matt_McG

Well, I guess that means I can save some money. 

Or put the money to a 2nd hand Japanese or Korean guitar, and a pro fret/neck setup and/or some new pickups.

streethawk

Sub 1k guitars are fantastic these days. Especially since the aftermarket parts scene took off.

Boutique pickups, a tasty loom, a plethora of saddles/tailpieces etc. The world's your oyster. But you might not need any of it!

My current favourite though is an American Original 60's strat which is well worth its money. Still under 2k. 

Sassafras

You know of course you don't have to spend the whole £2.5k? Just get another mid price guitar and a good set-up.

thegummy

ICBM said:

Diminishing returns set in as soon as you get above budget models these days, and certainly any Korean-made guitar from the last 20 years.

You can certainly get better guitars, but a £2.5K guitar is only going to be marginally better than a £500 one no matter how you define it.

Never played guitars that are over 2 grand but from playing very good ones under a grand I've always wondered how they could be improved with more money, they just seem to do everything as right as possible with the materials that make up a guitar.

Got a feeling that even if I was handed a 2.5 grand guitar I might have to have someone point out how it differs.

Matt_McG

@Sassafras Yeah, that's definitely an option. I tried a just over 1K Ibanez AZ, and while the guitar didn't fit what i want, the neck was pretty nice.

punchesjudy

I recently got an Indonesian made G&L Fallout and it's incredible. Easily holds its own against some US guitars I've owned/own. In fact it actually has some of the best fretwork I've seen on any guitar. The nut was poo for sure, but I sorted that and its incredible. 

I still constantly look for more expensive guitars to buy but I'm slightly more reluctant to actually spend the cash since I got this cheap G&L. 

JezWynd

I’ll echo @punchesjudy, G&L make very good quality instruments at every budget level. Not surprised to hear you can’t find anything notably superior. Perhaps seek out some older guitars, see if the feel and mojo you’re seeking can be found there.

TINMAN82

As usual, cognitive bias is inevitable with all of our answers. Also, I suspect the dealers, techs and serial flippers have more hands on experience than most.

But fwiw my own experience has been that you get what you pay for in most departments. I’ve had guitars from Korea, Mexico, China, Indonesia, Japan, Canada and USA. There have been more build, finishing and playability issues with the Far East guitars with the exception of Korea- a Korean made Ibanez I had years ago was practically perfect and I wish I’d held on to it. 

I like the look of the LSL range circa £2k but admittedly have never tried them. It really depends on what you’re looking for and if it’s a do it all or more niche type of thing.

SimonC

2.5 k will easily get you a very nice guitar, plus a very very very nice amp if spent in the correct proportions.

prowla

If you're looking at new guitars, they may well not have been set up.

A lot of stores seem to have up-market strat-alikes and gibbos which have been taken out of the box and plonked on the wall.

I have to say I prefer buying used, so they've had a chance to settle in.

But £2.5k should get you something bloody marvellous!

fandango

streethawk said:

Sub 1k guitars are fantastic these days. Especially since the aftermarket parts scene took off.

Boutique pickups, a tasty loom, a plethora of saddles/tailpieces etc. The world's your oyster. But you might not need any of it!

My current favourite though is an American Original 60's strat which is well worth its money. Still under 2k. 

I guess the starting point is making sure that there's a well constructed guitar body-neck to act as a 'canvas'. But we know that already, don't we?

You wouldn't start with a Ferrari if all you wanted was a reliable chugger.

Wonky

My personal view is that you should stop looking at brands in shops.  By far the best guitars I own are unusual and not very well known makes, ie one offs/low volume/ prototypes etc.  Mostly found on the old Ebay.  I decided about a year ago that I wanted a truly amazing and unique guitar collection and since then I've spent thousands building it.  I now own some truly amazing and absolutely awesomely stunning guitars and I honestly feel that they blow the absolute shit out of anything any of the brands big to the table at any price and from anywhere in the world.
Don't rush, but look a couple of times a week and be willing to take a risk.  So far none have failed me, but I think it's important to strike up a relationship and conversation with sellers just to make sure you're getting what you want.  If feel is important to you, travel and try.  If you're braver, just go for it.  Like I said, none have failed me yet and my collection is unique, inspirational and little known about.  Truly something special, rather than the same old thing.
Diminishing returns?  I don't find it at all with what I have.
Just my opinion and what the f"£k do I know, but I'm a happy man for it.

Ossyrocks

I don’t think I have ever found a guitar in a shop that plays better than anything I owned at the time. But, most shops neglect their guitars as compared with owners. Old strings, poor actions, intonation, setup, pickup adjustments etc etc. I find that I have to look past the guitar’s current personality and see a potential in it once you have put the time in setting it up.

An exception to this were the two R8’s I got from Peach last year without playing them first. They came in the post and were almost perfect on arrival.......almost.

Rob

Grumpyrocker

I've come to really believe the diminishing returns starts quite early now. The PRS SE Singlecut I bought recently has convinced me of that. 

So in theory what would more money add to this guitar? 

Better pickups? Well yes but I feel there's a whole lot of bullshit in this market too. The pickups on the SE Singlecut are better than on other SEs I've tried. But if I did want to upgrade £60 would get me a nice set of Iron Gear and really that would do.

Full maple cap? Well yes, but that's just a load of wood I couldn't see anyway. Figured tops are nice, but there's no point having more wood than a veneer - despite what some people think it's not see through. A plain maple cap with a veneer is just fine thank you very much.

I guess I could add some locking machine heads, but I'm just reaching now.

The real thing that would make it a £1800 guitar would be paying USA level wages to those that made it, and perhaps an even bigger percentage of that money being just a little sticker that says "Made in the USA". 

SimonC

Matt_McG said:

I'll be spending soon, prices up to and around 2-2.5K ish, and what I was looking for is something which is maybe a bit more player friendly -- in terms of lower action, a more refined neck feel, etc. -- without being a toothpick neck/totally flat board shred machine. Other than that, my mind was open. Strat style, T-style, off-set, super strat, whatever.

I’d definitely have a look a Feline for around that money.