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In this Discussion
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Anyone else bored to death by mainstream guitars?
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Comments
"my local guitar shop stocks about 90% Fender and traditional Fender / Gibson clones"
From memory, on my last visit, other than the aforementioned grandpa guitars there were (I think) two PRS's, and maybe 3 or 4 Schecters. There might have been others, but nothing that made an impression on me
It just happens that Charvel has very recently started building affordable guitars which I like.
But you’ll be lucky to find one in a shop.
My point was that I find it’s a shame that the main brands do nothing to improve the baseline or average guitars.
See my comment about neck joints for instance - there’s no reason to keep building them like in the 50s and there’s a long list of similar things.
That's actually where I got my first guitar (apart from ones I had as a kid) - a PRS Custom 24. I actually went there because they offered a free setup but when I bought it the guy looked at it and went "actually this is made really well it doesn't even need a setup" and I had to trust him because I didn't know anything about guitars at that point.
It was only after learning more and taking it elsewhere for a setup, I found out that there were things that even objectively needed set up such as the string height at the nut. So it left me wondering if they were just trying to get out of the free set up by saying that.
Just for starters. New materials: These drive invention and innovation. In aviation in the last 20 years, composites and honeycombed metalics made new designs possible. Aircraft were made lighter, carrying more payload, flying higher.
Materials can even be designed to resonate in particular ways.
This should be a massive boon to musicians, but what do we use? Wood. Why? Our guitars need setting up a couple of times a year due to temperature & humidity fluctuations. But no, if its not mahogany with a maple cap I will never sound like my hero. Everybody knows you need wood, nitro and hide glue to sound awesome.
The Gittler had its origins a very long time ago now. Titanium was eventually used to create a minimalist guitar. Yes it looks like an old roof aerial, but the point is it was utterly outside the box and demonstrated what was functional in an electric guitar. I'm not suggesting we all should have adopted a Gittler. Its just an example of well thought out design that went largely unnoticed. To a lesser degree so were Switch guitars (Trevor Wilkinson's injection molded plastic guitars) They even have a 'woody' tone. Carbon Fibre has been more successful but its still only a drop in the ocean.
In the 30's, George Beauchamp made the first production electric guitars from the most modern materials of the day; Bakelite and aluminium. Most players have never even heard of him. Who was he? He invented the magnetic pickup and the first usable electric guitar. But guitarists back then were just like us. They only wanted what they knew. They preferred to stick his new invention on their beloved archtops and suffer feedback for next 30 years.
Gibson and Fender fail when they try to innovate (even modestly) and sales suffer. We musicians are responsible for the stagnation. We are facing backward looking at 1959.
I don't think anyone has the arbitrary preference for 1959. It's not like if metal was used in the 50s and wood was used now, they'd go for metal. It's that they prefer wood.
Very few people think it's worth sounding different to not have to set their guitar up maybe a couple of times a year at most.
I don't know where you get the idea from that it's "what they know". At one point only acoustic guitars were known but then the electric came out and people liked it so moved to that. Then other changes were tried like guitars made out of metal or plastic but people generally don't like those so stick to what they like.
Don't really see any kind of problem as if everyone would really prefer newer designs but have some kind of mental block stopping them - it's just that people really do like guitars as they are. The evidence of that is in this very thread, you don't even have to look at any extreme changes, there are smaller changes readily available in guitar shops right next to the Strats and have been available for decades but people just prefer the Strats etc.
Go back to the 70's and there was only 1 Strat in the catalogue - with effectively 4 variations within this - Trem/no trem - maple or rosewood fingerboard - Only other option was about 4 good selling colours - I recall my dad first stocking Fender Guitars in our small family shop in Derby back in 1976 - We only needed to order 3 Strats, 1 Tele, I jazz bass and 1 Precision bass to get the dealership - Now you have umteen variations of Strats alone, from £200 to £3000 - Forgetting colour options and without looking at the Fender site for clarification, but I bet there are at least 50 different Strats in that price range - Maybe more - So a large store can put 100 Strats on the wall and offer a few variations of colours, yet I bet the next potential customers wants to know do you have in stock a Fender Vintera 70's Strat in mocha - Out of 100 Strats on your wall, you don't have what they want - Stand back 10 paces - Look at that Strat wall and apart from the colour they all look the same - Net results is bland or standardisation
Now add other models, bass guitars, amps, pedals, accessories, acoustics and the account requirement suddenly becomes humongous - As such many smaller dealers can't afford to buy into the dealership - If there is already a larger GuitarGuitar in the town, will Fender even support a smaller dealership as well
The trade has probably never been more polarised than it is today with a few large accounts handling the large majority of UK sales - Such large accounts pile into the 4/5/6 main guitar brands and the result is shops effectively having a similar stock profile - A few quality stores like Coda, Peach, WG will support the major brands, with a few nice boutique brands like Knaggs, Vigier or Rivolta, to offer something different - But such sales will only be icing on the cake in the grand scheme of things
So the smaller independents have to look at used guitars and here they are up against a very powerful tool like E-bay, Gumtree and Reverb as well as sites like FB - Granted they can join in and use such sites themselves as a selling tool - But it is hard for a dealer to make a decent profit now on used alone - ie if a used LP is worth say £2000 - The dealer would like to pay £1200 for it - But why would you as Mr Punter sell it to the dealer at £1200 when you might get £1600/1700 for it on a used site - The dealer can't afford to buy at £1700 and sell at £2000 and pay vat, rent/rates/wages etc etc - This is not a sob story - It is basic economics
Yet if you opened a store just stocking say ESP, Ibanez, Dean, Eastman, Schecter, Musicman and you'd have a hard job to make a living, even though you'd have a more exclusive stock profile
Take a respected brand like Suhr Guitars - I might be wrong, but I bet all UK dealers that stock it, are major dealers with a big Fender range - I can't think of a smaller independent in the UK, that has Suhr as its boutique flagship brand within the stores profile - As such Suhr is just the icing on the cake for a select few dealers
As I said, this is not a sob story from me whatsoever, it is just an observation on the state of play and maybe why - Could add far more but will get to long and even more boring - But will look at any comments as they arrive and add to it accordingly
Bassists have gone modern years ago, 5 and 6 string custom made bases with active electronics from a huge variety of wood and composites the norm now as opposed to 4 string fenders.
We will buy a Mex 60's Strat, then pay double to have same thing made across border in California, then pay double again to have it made in custom shop in same factory, then pay more again to have it beaten with chains and keys till it looks old!
Even Violinists in orchestras use composite instruments.
An the worst thing we cant tell what its made from anyway. we still buy our guitars on looks rather than sound and function.
Granted some form of 'hero worship' comes into play within the guitar market - Easy to say that JoBo, or who ever, gets there guitars free and in many cases they will - But such 'influential' players can pick brand A, B, or C , so they will often still pick the make/model they prefer - No use playing something they hate the sound/feel off - As a result the classic models suffice for the majority of the market - Granted Vai and Satch have seriously influenced the Ibanez locking trem market and to a smaller degree John Petrucci has influenced the M/Man market with his 'fresh design - Likewise EVH almost single handedly 'launched' the hot rod supa Strat
In fact thinking about it, it shows how influential 'our hero's are in the market place - For years there has been no shortage of the cool, weird, or odd balls guitars on the market place - The type that @HarrySeven enjoys - For many years, most were hard to sell - Many were available at pocket money prices, often in pawn shops, junk shops etc - Net result is few players wanted them - So why do we need Jack White to tell us that hey look these are great and offer something different to the norm - Why did you, the player, not buy one before - So we as guitar players do tend to be a flock of sheep
For many years Fender tried to get The Beatles interested in playing a Fender - It wasn't until late 68 that Fender managed to get an agreement, with delivery just before the famous rooftop gig - Bottom line was apart from a used Tele, they were not really into Fenders , so free offers of gear doesn't always work for the big brands - I recall an interview with Gary Moore talking about tours to Japan - He'd go back to his hotel room and lying on his bed, with a note from the manufacture, would be some 'new' GM Signature model, with an offer of some endorse deal - He'd say thanks but no thanks - So many of these guys are turning down various models as the classic 'bland' models is all that is required for many players
Remember the Ibanez Jem is now over 30 years old - Some would place that in the vintage camp - Do we now see such guitars as part of the bland establishment ? - Or fresh and exciting ? - As I mentioned earlier, most guitars we all favour, still support the established 21, 22 or 24 fret fingerboard - It is still the format that we can and like to express ourselves on - Granted there are variations within this regarding neck profile, fingerboard radius and fret size that makes a difference to feel/playability - But in essence the format is still the same
make a Strat out of composite materials so it's as light as a Fly, pick guard should be able to snap in and out to change pickups configuration, no need for 11 screws,materials could be made with shielding properties. Keep it all in same shape package etc so guitarists will buy it!
What I find frustrating is that you might talk about the merits of say a PRS to another player - They will say things like I hate them, hate the way they look, hate the doctor/dentist tag etc - You then ask have you ever played one and get back the answer NO - So how can you hate something you've not played - So yes in such a case it is very opinionated and certainly short sighted
Even Violinists in orchestras use composite instruments.
Not so sure many play composite violins within an orchestra - I know many like fibre bows now - I know the likes of Vanessa Mae sometimes play composite violins, as do other 'virtuoso' players - But I believe some of this is down to playing live on a stage and moving around so much - So the need for more of an electric format for convenience, as against trying to mic up a traditional instrument on a live stage
I get it that we are all different and view art in different ways, some think Tracy Emin, Artist, I think Tracy Emin, lazy cow who couldn't make her bed.
Its not hard to move into future of guitars and yet still take guitarists with you.
Improve on the best designs, you don't have to change whole thing for the sake of it.
PRS is a guy that got it right, ( I am not a fan) took a design built it to highest standards and created a new classic.
They're also the very definition of "hard to get", and unfortunately probably have sod all chance of growth in the market that guitars4you has described
Edit - but again, the OP didn't call for "crazy future guitars" like these - he just asked for a more ergonomic neck joint.