70's SG serial nos Location?Value?

Revolting1

Thinking of pulling the trigger on an early 70s Sg, but seller claims it has no serial no.

   I'd expect to find one at the back of the headstock, 6 figure and a made in Usa stamp.

     Am I right ,or are there exceptions?

   Believe its a re fin without original pups.

  Whats it worth ,if not a cunning copy?

   Not seen it yet cant post photos for time being.

  All help appreciated please.

Revolting1

Off to see it in 10 mins,any advice for chibsons? are they copying date codes?

Iamnobody

The spec of some 70s SGs is quite different to the models before and after - I doubt you’d get a chibson copying a 70s SG.

Indicators for some 70s models are the body contours are different, much less shaped and the hardware type - but it depends on year. 

Also serial No. format depends on the age of the instruments. Have you got a link with some pics?

andrewaward

Early 70s Sg could mean large batwing pickguard and long maestro trem, these are the most desirable 70s Sgs. After that model the desirability goes down ,  they still have their fans though. I'm talking about Standards. Best to get pics and post them here

Revolting1

Triangular pickgard , pots date cts 11/ 1971 humbuckers,neck pup directly adJacent to fretboard( no Gap), reflector knobs with pointy doofas underneath, 4 pots in wood not plastic, Trapeziod inlays, sorry still cant do Pics.

andrewaward

Are you sure it has trapezoid inlays and not rectangle, what's the bridge like

PhilKing

Triangular pickguard and humbcker at end of neck sounds more like the SG deluxe, but that would have the controls on a plate and has the body and neck in the same plane (the neck is not angled away from the body) and there is a step up to the neck.  Also, afaik. all of them had small block inlays.  Do the humbuckers have Gibson embossed in the covers?  Also, it would have the harmonica bridge.  A 72 would have the normal SG set up but would have a gap between the neck pickup and fingerboard.  It would still have the small blocks too

Revolting1

Sorry does have block inlays-all slightly offset which makes me think its genuine,fatter frets than a strat of that era, gibson embossed on 1 pup , both pups with lightly plated nickel or cadmium pole screws, maestro type bigsby Aluminium, but with gibson stamped on it and lever in slightly different position to later stock maestro, thinnest sg body I've ever seen:two Piece.

  Absolutely no sign of a serial no, and no sign of one having been removed.....

      still plays ok but loads of fret wear.

       

     Sounds rather good.   

 

  Haven't secured a deal on it yet.

Iamnobody

It sounds like this type:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F303266596924

https://www.creamcitymusic.com/vintage-1972-gibson-sg-standard-electric-guitar-natural-finish/

Revolting1

Iamnobody said:

It sounds like this type:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F303266596924

https://www.creamcitymusic.com/vintage-1972-gibson-sg-standard-electric-guitar-natural-finish/

Thanks , well found, the same model, but no sign of a serial no- I'm somewhat perplexed.

Skipped

The guitar would definitely have had a serial number.

This could have been removed deliberately. Or it could have been removed by excessive sanding when the guitar was refinished. (That seems less likely.) And all this may have happened a very long time ago.

I looked at many of these when I was obsessed with SGs. The viewings were always accidental after the seller had misidentified what they thought was a late sixties SG. But on each occasion I noticed that the guitar had a very playable neck and was hard to put down.

20 years ago it would have  been  easy to buy this guitar. Both seller and buyer would agree that the guitar is worth about half the value of a similar guitar with original finish, original parts.....and a serial number,

But then Gumtree happened.....

Kittyfrisk

Any sign of a neck break?  I know, how could that ever be possible with an old Gibson SG 
Maybe the headstock was a later addition/donor part following surgery.

Revolting1

No sign of a neck/ headstock break or even a tiny crack.

 

 That made me suspicious......

PhilKing

Can you see where the number was?  Any sign it was deliberately removed?  Sometimes when a guitar was stolen, that happens.

Revolting1

PhilKing said:

Can you see where the number was?  Any sign it was deliberately removed?  Sometimes when a guitar was stolen, that happens.

None whatsoever , the back of the headstock looks the same as the rest of the finish -

  looks like a refin to me, but 20 years old at least-uv attack minor bumps and scrapes but no freezer/ time machine-too regular checking shennanigans........

  Believeable provenance from 1975 onwards.....

   I've heard of Gibson not being on it with serial nos-but from 1972'ish on an sg?.......

     Plexated..............

Kittyfrisk

IMHO if the seller can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that it is a genuine Gibson, the asking price has to reflect this. 
Well, in an ideal world that is 

guitars4you

Without having any decent close up pics and/or the guitar in front of me then I'm batting a touch blind - Sounds like what we use to refer to as the Type 3 SGs - For many years not exactly sought after and to many they represented somewhat of  a low ebb in Gibson's history  - As such hardly likely to be a fraudulent replica undertaken by a skilled luthier - Yet even if a skilled luthier wished to spend a lot of time on a building such a guitar, then no reason to leave off a 'fake serial number'

Taking into accounts your above comments, then it sounds like a refin and undertaken some while ago - Remember that back in the 70s, and even the 80s, such guitars had no, or very little vintage value, so not unusual for any repair guys of the day to carry out today what we might see as a 'bodge jobs' - In my experience, there are many talented luthiers today who undertake such work that are streets ahead of the luthiers back in yesterday - I've seen such 'bad' work many times

Granted it is not an ideal situation and as long as you are happy with the situation, plus the way the guitar feels, plays, sounds etc, then if the price is right then not as big an issue as others fear - I'd probably state at least 50% of the value of a good example - You should still be able to authenticate other build details - Those control plates alone are not exactly found on your regular 'copies' - But today such guitars are 'affordable vintage' 'cool' and possess character

Your info on the pot dates and embossed pick up covers place it far earlier in the 70s, so not sure what you mean about the proved provenance from 1975 - Unless this reflects when the repair work/refin was carried out 

I'd be surprised if stolen, on the lack of serial number alone - Many such guitars have more of a scratched out number that looks an abortion - Can't see any/many want to refin a whole guitar to remove 'evidence on such a guitar with a relatively low value

My suspicion is a refin and and at the time the number has been 'sanded' it - However I have seen refins that are so thick that the varnish has just covered the 'stamped' serial number - Sometimes you can see the area where the serial number is/was, but just no longer readable - So maybe pics are not picking up this info, but in a good light you might still see some light evidence of a number

Have you seen the guitar in the flesh - Or pics only 

pintspiller

How much value is lost when the serial number is sanded off?

I have an SG Special that I tried to refinish but went mad with the sandpaper. Mind you the wood and frets are the only original things left on the guitar. The harmonica bridge was that badly pitted I replaced it with a MIJ one.

Revolting1

Sold listings on ebay for early 70s stock ones are mainly around £850/950, with the odd one at £1550 or so.

   Dont know what they're fetching else where.

Revolting1

guitars4you said:

Without having any decent close up pics and/or the guitar in front of me then I'm batting a touch blind - Sounds like what we use to refer to as the Type 3 SGs - For many years not exactly sought after and to many they represented somewhat of  a low ebb in Gibson's history  - As such hardly likely to be a fraudulent replica undertaken by a skilled luthier - Yet even if a skilled luthier wished to spend a lot of time on a building such a guitar, then no reason to leave off a 'fake serial number'

Taking into accounts your above comments, then it sounds like a refin and undertaken some while ago - Remember that back in the 70s, and even the 80s, such guitars had no, or very little vintage value, so not unusual for any repair guys of the day to carry out today what we might see as a 'bodge jobs' - In my experience, there are many talented luthiers today who undertake such work that are streets ahead of the luthiers back in yesterday - I've seen such 'bad' work many times

Granted it is not an ideal situation and as long as you are happy with the situation, plus the way the guitar feels, plays, sounds etc, then if the price is right then not as big an issue as others fear - I'd probably state at least 50% of the value of a good example - You should still be able to authenticate other build details - Those control plates alone are not exactly found on your regular 'copies' - But today such guitars are 'affordable vintage' 'cool' and possess character

Your info on the pot dates and embossed pick up covers place it far earlier in the 70s, so not sure what you mean about the proved provenance from 1975 - Unless this reflects when the repair work/refin was carried out 

I'd be surprised if stolen, on the lack of serial number alone - Many such guitars have more of a scratched out number that looks an abortion - Can't see any/many want to refin a whole guitar to remove 'evidence on such a guitar with a relatively low value

My suspicion is a refin and and at the time the number has been 'sanded' it - However I have seen refins that are so thick that the varnish has just covered the 'stamped' serial number - Sometimes you can see the area where the serial number is/was, but just no longer readable - So maybe pics are not picking up this info, but in a good light you might still see some light evidence of a number

Have you seen the guitar in the flesh - Or pics only 

  I've seen it in the flesh frets fairly worn but still plays ok

    Not a hint of a serial no on the back of the headstock and thats the only bit that looks like it hasnt had a refin.

     By provenance I meant one owner since 1975.

       Will try a blacklight when I look at it again.

 

    Its pretty much this construction and model

      Except its a two piece body.

guitars4you

^^^^^^^^^^^^  - good to see some pics - Probably my error but I was expecting the SG with the controls mounted on the black plastic control plate - Same era still but different model - My comments are still valid regarding the lack of serial number - What price have you been offered for it