“Masterbuilt” or “guitar by stencil”...

RaymondLin

GoldenEraGuitars said:

RaymondLin said:

Iamnobody said:

RaymondLin said:

The bit I have a real problem with is the bare wood by the pick guard.  To get here it means your pick has missed the strings, a lot, for years.

I’d never buy a guitar ‘preworn’ like that but...

If you play hard/with abandon your pick, thumb whatever will hit that area.

If you play live moving around not looking where your strumming you’ll hit that area. 

If you’ve got thick poly finish it might create some swirls - if it’s a thin nitro finish it will show more wear - playing it everyday add in sweat etc and that’s where you get the significant wear. I’m sure once it starts to go some people will pick at it as well.

If you sit at home playing pentatonic exercises and play several different guitars and stare at the fretboard and pick precisely you probably never see that wear.

Even the little bit north of the pick guard next to the fretboard? 

You might want to look at how Keith Richards plays his guitar and the angle he holds it... then look at Micawber.

You seem to be finding it hard to accept that old nitro comes off if knocked with a plectrum. If you look at good quality images of old brittle nitro you can see on a lot of guitars there’s not a lot holding the paint on. If you want to see a good example of an early burst strat that has come under fire from a sweaty forearm encased in a suit jacket look at Keith Scott’s main guitar. 

It's just the combination of a professional guitar player, who can probably play all his songs blindfolded with the guitar behind his head, but somehow missing so many strokes with this picks and all over the place across half the guitar length in a 50 year period and also not got better at picking.

All that stuff i am finding it a little bit hard to believe.  Logic will tell me memory muscles eventually kicks in and he would get better and better and miss less…not to mention I doubt a 60's Fender would be his first and only guitar either.

Also that bit on the very edge just by the pick guard, the angle of attack from the pick would have to be at least 90 degree perpendicular to the guitar, if it's anyway leaning away from the strings, it's not going to hit the very corner as you stroke down.

Plus if he were to really hitting it that hard, for that long, I would expect a little dent, or grove where the most comment strokes be in the wood over 50 years, not a completely smooth, even, flat surface across the entire area.  That would suggest he hit every single mm across that surface at an even amount over 50 years.  

So many things that I am having doubts with.

Philly_Q

You are over-thinking this.

Kittyfrisk

Philly_Q said:

You are over-sanding this.

FTFY

GoldenEraGuitars

Edit - I’ve just deleted 3 paragraphs of a reply because I genuinely can’t be bothered with this. 

In a nutshell, it’s not a conspiracy against you. Nitro guitars are subject to wear and tear.

Get over it.

GoldenEraGuitars

Kittyfrisk said:

@GoldenEraGuitars  please be gentle, I'm feeling my way through what I know, thought I knew & didn't have a sodding clue 
If we are still talking Fender Stratocasters here, then they would have a Fullerplast filler/undercoat?
So, this would not behave/wear in the same way as a nitrocellulose top coat, if one was ever present?
Also Fender introduced polyurethane finishes (often shortened to “urethane”) on its instruments in the late 1960s, so would these finishes 'chip' or shed in the same way as nitrocellulose and where does the characteristic wear come from?

Most of the wear you’ll see on fenders that some class as “extreme” or “not real” is usually pre CBS era stuff. Basically from mid 60s onwards they started to use polyester and urethane. You’ll see a notable difference in early 70s guitars compared to early 60s guitars.  Fender used several different paint, lacquers, primers etc over their history and especially in the early days. Note how 52 blackguards turn yellow yet the 56/57 whiteguards stay a nice creamy colour... improved nitro clear coats that didn’t yellow over time. Nitro dried out to the point that it is crispy and just flakes off. And until you’ve actually handled it you’ll not be able to appreciate how brittle it is. 

RaymondLin

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Edit - I’ve just deleted 3 paragraphs of a reply because I genuinely can’t be bothered with this. 

In a nutshell, it’s not a conspiracy against you. Nitro guitars are subject to wear and tear.

Get over it.

I don't disagree that Nitro wear, I disagree that is done by just being played.

Unless his picking pattern is over a 30cm wide area, spread evenly, and he missing his notes evenly across the entire area.

At minimum I would expect the middle part of the 30cm spread to have a slight groove due to the nature of where he hits the strings the most.  may be over where the neck pick ups is.

What is more likely is some of the paint did wear off and one day he took off the pickguard and took a bit of sandpaper and thought 'I will just smooth this bit out where my wrist rests" instead of it being a bit bumpy.

That I would believe.  

GoldenEraGuitars

Micawber... with gouges in the wood and the lacquer missing from the neck consistent with this picking and strumming.

https://i.imgur.com/gYi2Uj6.png


You're now making up things to support why you don’t “believe” this which doesn’t interest me at all. You believe whatever suits your foil hat theory, I’m off to bed chap.

Good luck.

StuartMac290

RaymondLin said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Edit - I’ve just deleted 3 paragraphs of a reply because I genuinely can’t be bothered with this. 

In a nutshell, it’s not a conspiracy against you. Nitro guitars are subject to wear and tear.

Get over it.

I don't disagree that Nitro wear, I disagree that is done by just being played.

Unless his picking pattern is over a 30cm wide area, spread evenly, and he missing his notes evenly across the entire area.

At minimum I would expect the middle part of the 30cm spread to have a slight groove due to the nature of where he hits the strings the most.  may be over where the neck pick ups is.

What is more likely is some of the paint did wear off and one day he took off the pickguard and took a bit of sandpaper and thought 'I will just smooth this bit out where my wrist rests" instead of it being a bit bumpy.

That I would believe.  

You need to factor in sweat. I'll put this up again, because it's totally natural wear from years of gigging on a 70s bass that was pristine when he bought it - and he doesn't even use a pick.

https://i.imgur.com/6cFHO4D.png

IvisonGuitars

StuartMac290 said:

RaymondLin said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Edit - I’ve just deleted 3 paragraphs of a reply because I genuinely can’t be bothered with this. 

In a nutshell, it’s not a conspiracy against you. Nitro guitars are subject to wear and tear.

Get over it.

I don't disagree that Nitro wear, I disagree that is done by just being played.

Unless his picking pattern is over a 30cm wide area, spread evenly, and he missing his notes evenly across the entire area.

At minimum I would expect the middle part of the 30cm spread to have a slight groove due to the nature of where he hits the strings the most.  may be over where the neck pick ups is.

What is more likely is some of the paint did wear off and one day he took off the pickguard and took a bit of sandpaper and thought 'I will just smooth this bit out where my wrist rests" instead of it being a bit bumpy.

That I would believe.  

You need to factor in sweat. I'll put this up again, because it's totally natural wear from years of gigging on a 70s bass that was pristine when he bought it - and he doesn't even use a pick.

https://i.imgur.com/6cFHO4D.png

GJK - He’s a top lad! I toured with them when that bass was a lot more brown!  

RaymondLin

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Micawber... with gouges in the wood and the lacquer missing from the neck consistent with this picking and strumming.

https://i.imgur.com/gYi2Uj6.png


You're now making up things to support why you don’t “believe” this which doesn’t interest me at all. You believe whatever suits your foil hat theory, I’m off to bed chap.

Good luck.

IvisonGuitars said:

StuartMac290 said:

RaymondLin said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Edit - I’ve just deleted 3 paragraphs of a reply because I genuinely can’t be bothered with this. 

In a nutshell, it’s not a conspiracy against you. Nitro guitars are subject to wear and tear.

Get over it.

I don't disagree that Nitro wear, I disagree that is done by just being played.

Unless his picking pattern is over a 30cm wide area, spread evenly, and he missing his notes evenly across the entire area.

At minimum I would expect the middle part of the 30cm spread to have a slight groove due to the nature of where he hits the strings the most.  may be over where the neck pick ups is.

What is more likely is some of the paint did wear off and one day he took off the pickguard and took a bit of sandpaper and thought 'I will just smooth this bit out where my wrist rests" instead of it being a bit bumpy.

That I would believe.  

You need to factor in sweat. I'll put this up again, because it's totally natural wear from years of gigging on a 70s bass that was pristine when he bought it - and he doesn't even use a pick.

https://i.imgur.com/6cFHO4D.png

GJK - He’s a top lad! I toured with them when that bass was a lot more brown!  

Exactly, look how both of these still have paint right next to the pickguard on the edge.

Do you see it?

Dan_Halen

RaymondLin said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Micawber... with gouges in the wood and the lacquer missing from the neck consistent with this picking and strumming.

https://i.imgur.com/gYi2Uj6.png


You're now making up things to support why you don’t “believe” this which doesn’t interest me at all. You believe whatever suits your foil hat theory, I’m off to bed chap.

Good luck.

IvisonGuitars said:

StuartMac290 said:

RaymondLin said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Edit - I’ve just deleted 3 paragraphs of a reply because I genuinely can’t be bothered with this. 

In a nutshell, it’s not a conspiracy against you. Nitro guitars are subject to wear and tear.

Get over it.

I don't disagree that Nitro wear, I disagree that is done by just being played.

Unless his picking pattern is over a 30cm wide area, spread evenly, and he missing his notes evenly across the entire area.

At minimum I would expect the middle part of the 30cm spread to have a slight groove due to the nature of where he hits the strings the most.  may be over where the neck pick ups is.

What is more likely is some of the paint did wear off and one day he took off the pickguard and took a bit of sandpaper and thought 'I will just smooth this bit out where my wrist rests" instead of it being a bit bumpy.

That I would believe.  

You need to factor in sweat. I'll put this up again, because it's totally natural wear from years of gigging on a 70s bass that was pristine when he bought it - and he doesn't even use a pick.

https://i.imgur.com/6cFHO4D.png

GJK - He’s a top lad! I toured with them when that bass was a lot more brown!  

Exactly, look how both of these still have paint right next to the pickguard on the edge.

Do you see it?

Let it go

ICBM

Philly_Q said:

You are over-thinking this.

+1

Fake thing is fake.

The end.

Corvus

@Raymondlin it's not possible to know either way from a few pics. But I do think people are a bit quick to dismiss the idea-

SRVs and Rorys guitars were held up as examples but have no similar wear in that area, nothing like it.
Anyone seen KWS play? Not exactly wild abandon personified.
Doesn't use that guitar all that much, keeps swapping them in a show and didn't have that one when I saw him.
His other guitars don't have any such wear.

But - probably battered when he got it. Once paint starts to lift/wear away it's far easier for more of it to start lifting. The fresh wear could well be from that.

It's just not possible to decide either way.

Seziertisch

I have a Gibson lap-steel from the early 50s, which has a thin nitro finish. It hasn’t been abused in its lifetime and the paint is mostly intact, though it is quite delicate.

There is some age related checking/flaking going on, which I think would come off with very little friction. A cuff or a sleeve of a shirt coming into contact with any frequency would probably remove it completely.

If the finish on a Fender of a similar age was similar to the finish on my lapsteel, I could definitely see some extreme relicing happening to it in a situation where it is frequently used/abused

Mark1960

Were the moon landings real or fake.....anybody

ToneControl

phil_b said:

that's what heavy relic'd guitars look like to me

StuartMac290

IvisonGuitars said:

StuartMac290 said:

RaymondLin said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Edit - I’ve just deleted 3 paragraphs of a reply because I genuinely can’t be bothered with this. 

In a nutshell, it’s not a conspiracy against you. Nitro guitars are subject to wear and tear.

Get over it.

I don't disagree that Nitro wear, I disagree that is done by just being played.

Unless his picking pattern is over a 30cm wide area, spread evenly, and he missing his notes evenly across the entire area.

At minimum I would expect the middle part of the 30cm spread to have a slight groove due to the nature of where he hits the strings the most.  may be over where the neck pick ups is.

What is more likely is some of the paint did wear off and one day he took off the pickguard and took a bit of sandpaper and thought 'I will just smooth this bit out where my wrist rests" instead of it being a bit bumpy.

That I would believe.  

You need to factor in sweat. I'll put this up again, because it's totally natural wear from years of gigging on a 70s bass that was pristine when he bought it - and he doesn't even use a pick.

https://i.imgur.com/6cFHO4D.png

GJK - He’s a top lad! I toured with them when that bass was a lot more brown!  

He's a very good mate - and that's a lovely bass!

Philly_Q

Corvus said:

SRVs and Rorys guitars were held up as examples but have no similar wear in that area, nothing like it.

I'm getting bored with this to be honest, but "no similar wear"?  Really?

Corvus

Well yes, we're talking about that area above the plate no? Everything on that^^ looks pretty evenly worn, none of it fresher than anywhere else. The KWS looks very fresh in that one area. That's what I mean.

I don't give a rats whether the KWS one is all real wear or added to, or whether you're bored. I did say it's not poss to decide from pics whether that particular area is real wear, or isn't. That's all.

scalino65

Mark1960 said:

Were the moon landings real or fake.....anybody

The early ones were real. However, people liked it and so they started faking them...