Power amps for Helix

guitarfishbay

WiresDreamDisasters said:

If I recall correctly, all poweramps are going to introduce some level of harmonic distortion (or total harmonic distortion). What you want is as low as possible for as loud as possible - ie, even in the solid state world an EHX Magnum 44 running at 44watts is going to have a higher THD than a 600-watt Matrix poweramp running at 44watts. The Matrix will be running cleaner and wont be messing with the signal as much, because the entire system wont be under as much stress.

Yeah - In short, if you go SS as long as you've got way more power than you'd ever need you'll be fine.

I've got two poweramps, a Matrix GT1000FX and a Mesa 2:90.  Either of them is capable of being louder than I'd ever need.  They both sound good.  Having the presence control and deep switch on the 2:90 is definitely more versatile, so I can definitely see the EQ on the Seymour Duncan poweramps being very useful.

I previously had a magnum 44, it was more than capable of being loud but it ran out of low end thump at very high volumes.  Compared to the Matrix it was just thinner at high volumes, at lower volumes I actually thought the Magnum sounded pretty decent

Vaiai

I used an SD Powerstage last night at rehearsal with a Mesa 1x12 and just put my Helix in - it belongs to the other guitarist but we both use Katanas for gigging ( I use mine to power the Helix via FX Return - he uses it as an amp and his Helix for FX. Reason being we have a backup amp if Helix dies at a wedding!) - he just got the Powerstage to try.
Did the job - didn't affect the sound unless you want it to as it has BMT knobs on it which makes for quick tonal adjustment on the fly. Also a nice light rig!

Clecko

gearaddict said:

Can you actually buy the Matrix amps in the UK?

People do rave about the SD Powerstage amps...it makes me wonder what they do to the sound? I mean, they just make a pre-amp louder right? How can they be anything other than boring? My instinct is to buy the cheapest make-louder-thingy.

That was my instinct, too. This pedal-sized power amp shootout on That Pedal Show changed my mind. Long but well worth a watch and a listen. 

Also what @digitalscream said about the EQ. I run my Helix into the 2x12 cab section of my combo amp via a power amp. I took the Helix and the power amp to a bass-playing mate's house recently and connected to a cab of his to find everything sounded noticeably darker, which was a bit distracting for me.

Less than 30 seconds of knob twiddling on the power amp and I was set for the day, across all the patches I used. Much easier than a patch-by-patch or even a global EQ change on the Helix, and nothing to change back once I got home. So that feature was really useful to me in one instance of slightly altering the gear I was using. If I was regularly playing different venues/through different cabs etc, it would feel indispensable.   

Dopesick

The Matrix GT1000 has always intrigued me the most out of power amps but just wondering how it would cope with a 2x12 with V30s - or mainly a 4x12 with random speakers (ie. backline for any gig).

I got a Marshall Origin now which sounds fantastic so it's all mute but I certainly would love to try one at some point.

Clarky

Dopesick said:

The Matrix GT1000 has always intrigued me the most out of power amps but just wondering how it would cope with a 2x12 with V30s - or mainly a 4x12 with random speakers (ie. backline for any gig).

I got a Marshall Origin now which sounds fantastic so it's all mute but I certainly would love to try one at some point.

I use it to drive a pair of Marshall 1960B 4x12 cabs set at 4 ohms.
occasionally on tour, the venue only managed to get me a single 1960B, which I've run in stereo mode [8ohms] without issue.
it was certainly loud enough but as you'd expect would lack the girth and stereo width of a pair of cabs
that said, it didn't upset my gig

professorben

Rehearsed last night with the Helix-PS170-4x12 @8ohms. ;

Was possibly slightly too loud if anything

https://photos.app.goo.gl/i9GXPJwi5QqDwJ3p9

guitarfishbay

Dopesick said:

The Matrix GT1000 has always intrigued me the most out of power amps but just wondering how it would cope with a 2x12 with V30s - or mainly a 4x12 with random speakers (ie. backline for any gig).

I got a Marshall Origin now which sounds fantastic so it's all mute but I certainly would love to try one at some point.

If you are concerned about blowing speakers there are warning lights to show output (it’s in the manual what they relate to at a specific homage).

If you’re concerned about volume they’re super loud

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

Dopesick said:

The Matrix GT1000 has always intrigued me the most out of power amps but just wondering how it would cope with a 2x12 with V30s - or mainly a 4x12 with random speakers (ie. backline for any gig).

I got a Marshall Origin now which sounds fantastic so it's all mute but I certainly would love to try one at some point.

If you are concerned about blowing speakers there are warning lights to show output (it’s in the manual what they relate to at a specific homage).

If you’re concerned about volume they’re super loud

I played a pretty big open air gig in 2017 in Germany
The GT1000 is always set to 2/3 or max and I set the level from the AxeFX.
I turned the AxeFX up to around 1/2 way..
had plenty of volume but not so much that it hurts,
and still had loads left over but never needed it even on that enormous stage..

funnily enough, my level at the festival was only marginally louder than when I played at the Robin 2 a few weeks back..

tekbow

https://www.andertons.co.uk/guitar-dept/electric-guitar-amps/power-amplifiers/palmer-macht-402-guitar-power-amp

gearaddict

I'm actually using the fx return of my little micro dark as a GSP1101 loudener atm. Surprisingly loud. The fx return of my Orange TH30 gives the nicest sound of the various things I've tried so far. The valves seem to warm it up.

Clarky

gearaddict said:

I'm actually using the fx return of my little micro dark as a GSP1101 loudener atm. Surprisingly loud. The fx return of my Orange TH30 gives the nicest sound of the various things I've tried so far. The valves seem to warm it up.

do you switch off the power amp modelling for that setup?

gearaddict

I don’t think you can separate the power amp modelling in that way with the Digitech...when I had the LT I tried both and I preferred it with the power amp modelling on. 

Clarky

gearaddict said:

I don’t think you can separate the power amp modelling in that way with the Digitech...when I had the LT I tried both and I preferred it with the power amp modelling on. 

in the AxeFX you can switch off both cab and power amp emulation
when I play through my cabs I switch off the cab emulation of course, but as the GT1000FX is transparent I leave the power amp emulation on..

the bit it don't do though which is kind of a shame is to be able to switch off the preamp emulation..
so for example, if you wanted to use a real JMP-1 or 2120, you'd want to run that only into the modelled power amp stage of the amp block..
I saw folks in the fractal forum ask for that a few times..

the workaround was to exploit a feature in the AxeFX that allows you to create custom amps by selecting different tonestacks..
so imaging loading a Mesa MkIIC amp, then swapping the tonestack for a Peavey 5150..
the 5150 preamp runs through a MkIIC power amp.. you can mess around with all sorts of unusual combinations..
so.. the solution was to load the amp that had the power amp stage that most resembles the real rack mounted power amp you're after.. like a modern 100W Marshall if you wanted something like the Marshall EL34 100/100.. and then load the most transparent tonestack you can find [like a Roland Jazz jobby with all the controls at 12 o'clock]..
then you can pop the real preamp [JMP-1 for example] in the fx loop with the return before the amp block and you'll get pretty close to what you're looking for..
as with all things, the AxeFX is not perfect [if there is such a thing], but it's seriously configurable and so amazingly flexible

EDIT: sorry for the tangent guys..

gearaddict

I'm probably missing the point but if you want to do the above, why not run the JMP1 into an actual Marshall 100/100? Seems a lot of effort and expense to go to just to bypass most of the modelling. I guess if it is only one of a number of patches you use and you use lots of fx from the axe etc...

professorben

gearaddict said:

I'm probably missing the point but if you want to do the above, why not run the JMP1 into an actual Marshall 100/100? Seems a lot of effort and expense to go to just to bypass most of the modelling. I guess if it is only one of a number of patches you use and you use lots of fx from the axe etc...

Have you ever picked up a Marshall 100/100? 

Clarky

professorben said:

gearaddict said:

I'm probably missing the point but if you want to do the above, why not run the JMP1 into an actual Marshall 100/100? Seems a lot of effort and expense to go to just to bypass most of the modelling. I guess if it is only one of a number of patches you use and you use lots of fx from the axe etc...

Have you ever picked up a Marshall 100/100? 

absolutely.. add that to a pile of stomps too..
I only know of a handful of guys that wanted to do this..
what they wanted was a lighter rig with a smaller footprint, to keep their fave lead tone for example and still be able to use other models for other tasks..
one guy was interested keeping the JMP-1 for something specific and another a Sansamp for a similar reason

FX_Munkee

Clarky said:

gearaddict said:

I'm actually using the fx return of my little micro dark as a GSP1101 loudener atm. Surprisingly loud. The fx return of my Orange TH30 gives the nicest sound of the various things I've tried so far. The valves seem to warm it up.

do you switch off the power amp modelling for that setup?

You can with the GSP1101, if you have it setup in 4 cable mode. I have mine paired with a Laney IRT studio amp in 4CM and I can use the preamp from either and turn off the power amp modelling and cab sims. I can also turn them back on and record direct. Or record from the Laney (includes dry output for re-amping later if desired). Extremely versatile, but can get confusing

Clarky

FX_Munkee said:

Clarky said:

gearaddict said:

I'm actually using the fx return of my little micro dark as a GSP1101 loudener atm. Surprisingly loud. The fx return of my Orange TH30 gives the nicest sound of the various things I've tried so far. The valves seem to warm it up.

do you switch off the power amp modelling for that setup?

You can with the GSP1101, if you have it setup in 4 cable mode. I have mine paired with a Laney IRT studio amp in 4CM and I can use the preamp from either and turn off the power amp modelling and cab sims. I can also turn them back on and record direct. Or record from the Laney (includes dry output for re-amping later if desired). Extremely versatile, but can get confusing

I never got around to trying the GSP1101..
but those I know that had them [mostly guys in the the Fractal forum] spoke very highly of them..
I've always liked Digitech..