Swapping Gibson P90s for Lollar P90s or others?

ellangus

OK, I have a 2016 Gibson SG Standard with P90s and I'm considering changing the pickups for Lollars.

Whilst I'm pretty happy with the existing pickups - I'm wondering if Lollars (or if any other suggestions) will bring something new to the party.

Or am I just pissing in the wind? ;-)

Opinions would be most welcome.

Funkfingers

I assume that you refer to an SG rather than any other body shape.

In what way are the Gibson pickups failing to satisfy you? Is the control harness hard-wired or PCB? 

Greg Koch seems to manage pretty well with a stock example. Not sure what amp he is playing through.



The quickest and cheapest way to perk up the sound would be to change the magnets in the bridge/Treble position pickup. Un-oriented Alnico 5 would introduce some interesting rasp.

lovestrat74

Not SG but good comparison vid all the same

ellangus

Funkfingers said:

I assume that you refer to an SG rather than any other body shape.

In what way are the Gibson pickups failing to satisfy you? Is the control harness hard-wired or PCB? 

Greg Koch seems to manage pretty well with a stock example. Not sure what amp he is playing through.



The quickest and cheapest way to perk up the sound would be to change the magnets in the bridge/Treble position pickup. Un-oriented Alnico 5 would introduce some interesting rasp.

Yes, I do mean SG (now amended).
In fact it's the exact model which Greg is playing in the vid.
It's not that they're not satisfying me at all, just wondering if there would be any merit in changing - The grass is always greener etc.

ellangus

@Funkfingers The controls are pcb btw

Funkfingers

PCB presents its own special set of (first world) problems. Chiefly, the resistance values of the pots, any block connectors and the ease or difficulty of changing components such as the capacitors for the tone controls.

The first caveat with the Koch video is that the guitar being demonstrated could possibly have Wildwood spec pickups. Since this is not mentioned as either speech or captions, I have presumed standard pickups.

The second caveat is that it is not always clear what amplification Koch is using and how its controls are set. That will have some bearing on the overall sound. (Doug & Pat never leave viewers in any doubt about their test amplification du jour.)

I have Lollar +5% overwound P90s in my PRS SE Soapbar singlecut guitar. I purchased them pre-owned just to discover what the fuss was about. Tried ‘em. Liked ‘em so much that they have stayed in the guitar ever since. 

Lollar certainly builds nice pickups. So do a bunch of UK makers. 

merlin

I had a Gordon Smith with 2 P90s in it. The stock pickups were ghastly and really noisy. After a lick of conducting paint throughout the whole insides, they still sounded shit and noisy. Along came a set of Lollars on gumbay or eTree and they went in and the improvement was simply unbelievable. 

I've had a few P90 equipped instruments. The ones that came on my Gibson R6 Goldtop were tremendous, felt no need to swap them out. Same with the Little SIster. The JJ ones are also great in a kind of rounder way, the PRS McCarty goldies were amazing and the bridge on my current Fano SP6 is classic, does pretty much everything I want from a bridge pickup. 

Overall I would say that the Lollars are extremely good, crisp, punchy, clear although perhaps a little polite. 
Gibsons were excellent. Would I swap them out? Probably not but a little bit of experimentation won't harm. 

Funkfingers

PRS McCarty Soapbar came with two off-the-shelf Seymour Duncan pickups. SP90-1n (neck/Rhythm/Bass) and SP90-3n (bridge/Treble). 

You read correctly. That’s two neck position pickups. I “borrowed” the idea for my LP Standard and Junior Special.

Andyjr1515

I'm generally not a huge fan of some of the Gibson pickups (don't worry, I'm not a Gibson hater) but, actually, I think their P90's are excellent.

I've had LPs with Gibson's P90's and LPs with Lollars.  The Lollars are, simply, slightly different.  They are both good P90s.  Personally, I would stick with stock ones.

ellangus

Andyjr1515 said:

I'm generally not a huge fan of some of the Gibson pickups (don't worry, I'm not a Gibson hater) but, actually, I think their P90's are excellent.

I've had LPs with Gibson's P90's and LPs with Lollars.  The Lollars are, simply, slightly different.  They are both good P90s.  Personally, I would stick with stock ones.

That's the vibe I'm getting having read reviews etc online

impmann

There is a lot of BS out there about Gibson P90s. I've got a Les Paul Goldtop and its bog stock - it sounds like a LP with P90s. They sound great. Its graced a few recordings, and a lot of stages and it never fails to impress.

I've also got a guitar fitted with Mojo A3 magnet P90s - they sound biblically nice. 

Would I fit the Mojos to the Gibson? No... because I feel no need to.

The moral - if you like it the way it is, leave it alone and just play the thing. 

lovestrat74

This ^^^ why are we so obsessed with minuscule differences?

If a great player, played an epi or a budget guitar we would all say that the tone is in the fingers 

I suppose it's good for the guitar-based economy though and keeps us all interested 

Funkfingers

Once again, it would appear that the correct answer to the OP question is to 

BUY ANOTHER GUITAR

Winny_Pooh

I'd buy Mojos or Oil city over Lollars which IMO are overpriced and usually too underwound.

The Gibson p90s you have at present are probably fine

PhilKing

Good P-90's are great pickups, but Gibson did make some mediocre ones in the early 70's (the ones with the clear coil formers).  I'm a big fan of Bare Knuckle Nantuckets, but most of my p-90 guitars still have the original Gibsons.  The one exception is a junior which has a Lindy Fralin rewind, as the coil went back in the early 90's.  I told him I was after the Leslie West Mississippi Queen tone and that's what he delivered.  I never bothered to measure it, so I can't tell you where it would fit in his range.  I also have a Mojo P-90 with a bar, rather than screws, which is another excellent pickup, if a bit different to a straight P-90, as there is a lot of clarity on the notes.

ellangus

Well that’s me told!
looks like I’ll be saving a few bob and sticking with the gibbos 

impmann

PhilKing said:

Good P-90's are great pickups, but Gibson did make some mediocre ones in the early 70's (the ones with the clear coil formers).  <SNIP>

Hmmm... Mike Campbell did alright with his 1972 Goldtop with the clear bobbins (covers removed). Some ace sounds from that one on the early TP & the Heartbreakers stuff... 

barnsleyboy

Ah, perfect timing on this post - I was about to ask the good folks here almost the exact same question! I recently bought a 2013 50's LP Tribute which I must say I have been very impressed with - once I'd disposed of the Robotuner-gibson-gubbins on the head stock! I'm sure some love them, but I just couldn't get into it.

The P90's are great, but same thing is the grass greener? I think I'll stick with the stock ones for the time being.

But one thing I am definitely toying with is the PCB.

Funkfingers said:

PCB presents its own special set of (first world) problems. Chiefly, the resistance values of the pots, any block connectors and the ease or difficulty of changing components such as the capacitors for the tone controls.

I'm thinking of ditching the PCB and getting it wired 50's stylee. Any thoughts from anyone on how this has improved things and suggestions on pots and cap values? The other thing I'm thinking about is a push pull to plunge into Peter Green territory - would this be effective with P90's? I have it on a Chapman ML-2 classic with humbuckers,

Funkfingers

barnsleyboy said:

The other thing I'm thinking about is a push pull to plunge into Peter Green territory - would this be effective with P90s?

Two P90s, in parallel, electrically out of phase can result in a useful Blues overdriven sound but it is not the same as the sound associated with Peter Green.

Your first obstacle to achieving this will be the output cable format of the P90s. Phase reversal wiring requires one of the pickups to have two-conductor + shield cable. (Coil Start, Coil Finish + Ground for the metal baseplate and any copper foil.)

PhilKing

impmann said:

PhilKing said:

Good P-90's are great pickups, but Gibson did make some mediocre ones in the early 70's (the ones with the clear coil formers).  <SNIP>

Hmmm... Mike Campbell did alright with his 1972 Goldtop with the clear bobbins (covers removed). Some ace sounds from that one on the early TP & the Heartbreakers stuff... 

I suspect Mike Campbell would sound great no matter what he played.  I'm basing it on my 72 55 Les Paul Special reissue.  When I swapped them out for a set of BK Nantuckets, the guitar really came alive.  I was surprised though, because I actually bought one of these new and liked the sound (though I swapped it for a 72 LP Custom after a couple of years).  I wish I had both of those guitars, but in my lack of knowledge as a youngster, didn't realize what I had.   The 72 55 I picked up is very similar in feel but has had a hard life, it has a repair where the neck joins the body (really well done but really shows under a black light).  

barnsleyboy

Funkfingers said:

Your first obstacle to achieving this will be the output cable format of the P90s. Phase reversal wiring requires one of the pickups to have two-conductor + shield cable. (Coil Start, Coil Finish + Ground for the metal baseplate and any copper foil.)

I've whipped the back plate off, and each pickup has 4 wires (green, white, black and red) and a ground connected to the quick connect plugs, So I'm thinking it's a relatively easy job to wire a switchable phase reverse.

The other thing is, does it matter which pickup you reverse the phase of? Or could I increase the tonal palette by having a push pull for each pickup? I'm just exploring and working through options at the moment. I'm guessing that the biggest change will be the 50's wiring!