Who else has had their head turned upside-down with this famous intro?

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Old_SwannerOld_Swanner Frets: 15
edited January 15 in Technique
Without hearing the count-in we are tricked into hearing the first hit as the "One" beat.  It's not, as I show below!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00ySZOPPDD4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn6PVLFW5tk
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1137
    I think it would be easier to treat it as an extra half beat before the vocals come in than to displace everything forwards half a beat. Granted it works out the same. 
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  • Old_SwannerOld_Swanner Frets: 15
    edited January 16
    Check out this live version:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwN60xWnfhs

    Here we get the benefit of hearing a (16th note) count-in from Glenn Frey confirming that the first guitar hit comes before the beat.  On the studio version the count-in is omitted and we can easily (wrongly) hear the pattern displaced by half a beat and weirdly sounding exactly like a beginner's "basic/campfire" strum (D-DU-UDU).

    My version is drawn up in 8th notes rather than 16th but the timing is the same.  Others I know of that can "trick" our ears similarly ... "Sex on Fire" (it's rare to see a cover band timing it the way it was written; the first note on the record is played on beat 4) ... "This Charming Man" by the Smiths which starts on beat 2 ... "Lonely Boy" by Andrew Gold where the offbeats can pull us upside-down   If anyone knows any more I'd love to hear them.
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  • bloodandtearsbloodandtears Frets: 764
    edited January 16
    AC/DC - Livewire has a slightly ambigious intro..



    My trading feedback

    is it crazy how saying sentences backwards creates backwards sentences saying how crazy it is?

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  • Old_SwannerOld_Swanner Frets: 15
    edited January 16
    AC/DC - Livewire has a slightly ambigious intro..

    That band is a great source of "offbeat" intros though there's usually enough there to define the first beat clearly.  In Live Wire the bass is laying down the count in 8th notes and the guitar hits land on the "and" of beat 4 just like the lead guitar hits in Take it Easy!

    I've seen Highway to Hell cause confusion a few times.  It starts on the "and" of beat 3 as does my favourite ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0hEDUEXK-c 
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  • DulcetJonesDulcetJones Frets: 472
    It's called a "pick up bar" in theory speak, the notes are "pick up note(s)".   When a song has a pick up bar the last bar of the song will have just the number of beats that are missing from the pick up bar. 

    Turns out “you’re so beautiful when you’re sleeping” is only considered a compliment if she knows who you are.



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  • It's called a "pick up bar" in theory speak, the notes are "pick up note(s)".   When a song has a pick up bar the last bar of the song will have just the number of beats that are missing from the pick up bar. 
    A.k.a. an anacrusis
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  • Here's an old thread discussing exactly this issue.  Plenty of variety and another guy looking at Take it Easy in there.

    https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/songs-where-you-hear-the-intro-in-a-different-time-signature-than-it-actually-is.254841/page-7

    Seeing the Police mentioned in there now reminds me that I used to hear "Walking on the Moon" upside-down for the longest time.  May have to add that to my bucket list.
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  • gjonesygjonesy Frets: 79
    life's been good - joe walsh is another
    in fact there's a series of vids on you tube about this

    https://youtu.be/bISlb3byI6k
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  • clarkefanclarkefan Frets: 640
    Sex On Fire is a great example, even just listening to it throws me every time.  Reggae music as well but that's probably my screwed up sense of timing. 
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  • gjonesy said:
    life's been good - joe walsh is another
    in fact there's a series of vids on you tube about this

    Superb stuff ... I made a link to list the full series!

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Richiesos/search?query=f-ing+beat

    He has a new subscriber and I'll look forward to having a dig through!
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  • paul_xtpaul_xt Frets: 73
    Rope by the Foo Fighters foxed me for ages. If I’m not counting at the start then I’ve had it! 
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  • paul_xt said:
    Rope by the Foo Fighters foxed me for ages. If I’m not counting at the start then I’ve had it! 
    Just had a listen and it's got me ... what part of the count is that first guitar hit on?
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  • paul_xt said:
    Rope by the Foo Fighters foxed me for ages. If I’m not counting at the start then I’ve had it! 
    Just had a listen and it's got me ... what part of the count is that first guitar hit on?
    Sounds like the ‘1’ to me! The second guitar is on the ‘1-and’.

    The drum fill starts on a 3...misses the 1 and lands a kick on the 1-and...that’s pretty jarring.
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  • digitalkettle said:

    Sounds like the ‘1’ to me! The second guitar is on the ‘1-and’.

    The drum fill starts on a 3...misses the 1 and lands a kick on the 1-and...that’s pretty jarring.
    What a Pandora's box. Glad I don't have to learn that one for the weekend!
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  • RolandRoland Frets: 3343

    ...  Others I know of that can "trick" our ears similarly ... "Sex on Fire" (it's rare to see a cover band timing it the way it was written; the first note on the record is played on beat 4) ...
    I’m fed up of pub customers telling us that we don’t play it properly, but then I’ve watched people clapping along in 4:4 whatever the time signature.
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  • vizviz Frets: 5920
    digitalkettle said:

    Sounds like the ‘1’ to me! The second guitar is on the ‘1-and’.

    The drum fill starts on a 3...misses the 1 and lands a kick on the 1-and...that’s pretty jarring.
    What a Pandora's box. Glad I don't have to learn that one for the weekend!
    Yep it’s just on the 1. It’s fine if you tap your foot unwaveringly!
    Change your search engine from google to www.ecosia.org - they plant trees when you search. Honestly, it's awesome.
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  • Roland said:

    ...  Others I know of that can "trick" our ears similarly ... "Sex on Fire" (it's rare to see a cover band timing it the way it was written; the first note on the record is played on beat 4) ...
    I’m fed up of pub customers telling us that we don’t play it properly...
    Yes it starts on the 4 the way I hear it.

    We had a problem in our band with Sex On Fire. I explained the way I count it and had a friendly disagreement with our drummer who heard it differently. But when just the two of us played it together we were perfectly in sync with each other. It seemed to be the rest of the band were off, so in the end we gave up and decided to start it with the chorus.

    It's not a competition.
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  •  in the end we gave up and decided to start it with the chorus.
    :) has to be done sometimes!

    Roland said:
    I’m fed up of pub customers telling us that we don’t play it properly, but then I’ve watched people clapping along in 4:4 whatever the time signature.
    Better an incorrect version that gets them clapping than a correct version that doesn't!

    Can always tweak things at a later date anyway ... send your band members a link to this examination by Paul Davids ... even non-musicians can enjoy his videos 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slDKUaJFNfE
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 4399
    With Sex on Fire it's pretty obvious where the 1 is but it's the drummers who tend to come in on the wrong beat, it's not the guitarist who plays it wrong. But then a lot of drummers in covers bands are lazy gits who basically just have a quick listen and don't learn the song properly . Pet hate of mine that ! 
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  • viz said:

    Yep it’s just on the 1. It’s fine if you tap your foot unwaveringly!
    digitalkettle said:

    Sounds like the ‘1’ to me! The second guitar is on the ‘1-and’.

    The drum fill starts on a 3...misses the 1 and lands a kick on the 1-and...that’s pretty jarring.

    Thanks gents, I'm with you on that now.

    Is it doable to start that second guitar part in the right place using just Dave's (delay effected) strums as the guide?
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 735
    This one gets me every time:



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  • Stuckfast said:
    This one gets me every time
    Good one!  Working that one out felt like a bit of light relief after what the Foo Fighters track did to me :)  It might come in handy for the Sex on Fire guys to use to make the point to their band-mates (as it has a little in common).

    Here's another intro I heard wrong for (cough ... 30+) years ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_4X-P4ZcUI
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  • vizviz Frets: 5920
    This one is tricky:

    https://youtu.be/j8O3zC4E1NI
    Change your search engine from google to www.ecosia.org - they plant trees when you search. Honestly, it's awesome.
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  • randellarandella Frets: 2406
    paul_xt said:
    Rope by the Foo Fighters foxed me for ages. If I’m not counting at the start then I’ve had it! 
    Just had a listen and it's got me ... what part of the count is that first guitar hit on?
    Sounds like the ‘1’ to me! The second guitar is on the ‘1-and’.

    The drum fill starts on a 3...misses the 1 and lands a kick on the 1-and...that’s pretty jarring.
    The Feast and the Famine got me the same way when the snare comes in.  Drummers who play the guitar eh?

    I suppose when you have Taylor Hawkins behind the kit you can get away with these liberties :)
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  • robertyroberty Frets: 1899
    The drummers I've played with call this a 'push', chord change and/or emphasis on the offbeat before the bar line. I don't know if that's a correct term but it makes it easy to communicate
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