Modifications and their effect on value.

JohnnyPlectrum

TeleMaster said:

No tags and case candy aren't modifications.

For the purposes of this post they are.
Without them there's always a back story.

JerkMoans

JohnnyPlectrum said:

TeleMaster said:

No tags and case candy aren't modifications.

For the purposes of this post they are.
Without them there's always a back story.

Really? Before I wised up (started actively participating in/on this forum, basically) tags and all that crap went straight in the bin. Case candy? Stickers got stuck on things, picks got used, straps either used or given away...

JohnnyPlectrum

JerkMoans said:

Really? Before I wised up (started actively participating in/on this forum, basically) tags and all that crap went straight in the bin. Case candy? Stickers got stuck on things, picks got used, straps either used or given away...

Very much depends on what the candy is.
For a 2017 £3k guitar being sold in 2019 I would say spec sheets, tools and spares, original case possibly even original invoice, not being there would be considered odd. 
The older the instrument the less you'd expect.
The cheaper the model the less you'd expect.
Picks, dusters and stickers, yeah, fair game.
Tooled leather masterbuilt fender strap, I'd expect it in the case.
Black strat book with the Gilmour model, I'd expect it in the case.
Any COA with any guitar, I'd expect it in the case.

ICBM

JohnnyPlectrum said:

TeleMaster said:

No tags and case candy aren't modifications.

For the purposes of this post they are.
Without them there's always a back story.

It usually just means someone doesn't care about all that crap.

Nice straps and stuff they'll probably want to just keep.

MattNovak

JohnnyPlectrum said:

Fishboy7 said:

I’m intrigued now – have you got a link to it?

I don't think a deal will happen so yeah.

https://reverb.com/uk/item/29453576-charvel-guthrie-govan-signature-model-custom-w-custom-hard-case

''All the work was done by a top Luther''

Snags

JohnnyPlectrum said:

JerkMoans said:

Really? Before I wised up (started actively participating in/on this forum, basically) tags and all that crap went straight in the bin. Case candy? Stickers got stuck on things, picks got used, straps either used or given away...

Very much depends on what the candy is.
For a 2017 £3k guitar being sold in 2019 I would say spec sheets, tools and spares, original case possibly even original invoice, not being there would be considered odd. 
The older the instrument the less you'd expect.
The cheaper the model the less you'd expect.
Picks, dusters and stickers, yeah, fair game.
Tooled leather masterbuilt fender strap, I'd expect it in the case.
Black strat book with the Gilmour model, I'd expect it in the case.
Any COA with any guitar, I'd expect it in the case.

Personally, I tend to keep all the bits and bobs either filed away or in the case (not that I have many guitars posh enough to come with bits and bobs).

However, I wouldn't look askance at potentially all of that being missing, particularly hang tags and paper-based stuff. A vast number of people just don't care about that stuff, and will bin it straight off.

At work we send out equipment to members of staff (not our staff, but staff of client organisation's, and it's the client organisation's kit). The recipient signs an agreement stating what they've had, that they take responsibility for all of it being well-kept, that they might be charged etc. and that this includes all the packaging. 80% of the stuff that comes back does so without the original boxes (even where these are protective items moulded to the device), often with the wrong (and inappropriate chargers) and very often with no AC adapter at all. I've even seen people just tear open the packaging immediately on being handed stuff - and by that I mean tear the main box in two, effectively, not just open it enthusiastically.

This is with kit that isn't theirs, and that they have just agreed to be liable for.

Some people just really don't give a shit about such things.

JohnnyPlectrum

Snags said:

Some people just really don't give a shit about such things.

FWIW, if you were every to buy one of my guitars you'd get exactly what I bought plus straplocks and a choice of strings. :-)

crunchman

I must confess I kept the toolkit when I sold a Custom Shop Tele.  It's quite a useful little kit.

I actually took it in the car with me when I went to meet the guy, in case he asked, but he didn't.

p90fool

I still have all the case stuff and tags etc for my Les Paul, so it's it's obviously worth top dollar. 
Shame the guitar's a bit fucked.

Grangousier

''All the work was done by a top Luther''

Well, yes. The question is whether it was the father of Protestantism or Idris Elba in disturbed cop mode. 

JerkMoans

Grangousier said:

''All the work was done by a top Luther''

Well, yes. The question is whether it was the father of Protestantism or Idris Elba in disturbed cop mode. 

I guess after nailing your 95 theses to the door of the Church in Wittenberg, it's onwards and upwards for a heretic seeking woodworking kicks.

guitars4you

JohnnyPlectrum said:

Fishboy7 said:

I’m intrigued now – have you got a link to it?

I don't think a deal will happen so yeah.

https://reverb.com/uk/item/29453576-charvel-guthrie-govan-signature-model-custom-w-custom-hard-case

agree with a comment above - Not what I was expecting - I was expecting some Fender that had been mutilated

Pick-up change on this will obviously be a matter of taste - A part of me say's that the idiosyncratic part of any signature guitar is that you are buying their spec and not yours, so not sure why they would wish to change

I dare say they have spent some funds on the work carried out and regardless of how well it is done, I can't see one reason as to why the can justify asking a higher price for it

I still think it will be very hard to sell, especially at anything like 2K and above 

Easy to ask why would any one under take such changes - You could ask George Harrison why he painted a blue 60's Strat in  rainbow colours 

The biggest sin IMO is removing the signature decal etc

It is obviously not a crap guitar, but I don't see it fetching anything like that

prlgmnr

Pretty foolish to remove the serial from a high value guitar like that.

I do think it looks better than stock with that stain, mind.

TeleMaster

JohnnyPlectrum said:

TeleMaster said:

No tags and case candy aren't modifications.

For the purposes of this post they are.
Without them there's always a back story.

Nope. Modifications are doing something to the guitar. Stickers, hang tags etc are different. It's just junk in the case. You aren't modifying anything in any way at all by not having it. 

FelineGuitars

Looking at the pictures , my opinion (and it's just MY opinion)is that the previous owner maybe felt that the applied finish wasn't doing enough to bring out the figuring in the wood grain, and wanted it stripped back and re-oiled etc in a way that would make the grain and flaming really pop. 

That means that the back of the headstock got stripped back  and then the whole neck was re-done 

Looking at how the grain looks in the pics it would seem that the ambition to make the flame stand out was achieved, but at the expense of some of the provenance of the guitar.

The other problem for some players is that they like the features of a signature guitar, but aren't a fan-boy of the player or don't want to be seen as a Guthrie fanboy at open mic and jam-nights or auditions for bands.

They wanted to just have their own identity without players thinking that they were going to be obsessed by a certain players stylings (I've known players get rid of Ibanez Jems because they couldn't get taken seriously at band auditions and end up with a less specific model of a guitar  to avoid that "fanboy" stigma).

Also with respect case candy, hang tags, spec sheets, stickers, receipts etc etc.....

Some players buy stuff to play, to enjoy and rock out with, with no initial thoughts that someday they would be selling the guitar on . They bought it for the fun of owning a great guitar, not with a view to being a temporary custodian of an artefact that will be sold on at max value in as close to showroom condition as possible.

It would be like buying a sportscar and never taking it out for a good drive in order to keep the mileage down for the next guy, or dating a hot girl but not ever sleeping with her to keep her as "unsullied" as possible for the next boyfriend.

Life is about having fun surely.....

p90fool

FelineGuitars said:

 They bought it for the fun of owning a great guitar, not with a view to being a temporary custodian of an artefact that will be sold on at max value in as close to showroom condition as possible.

It would be like buying a sportscar and never taking it out for a good drive in order to keep the mileage down for the next guy

Yes but you wouldn't grind the chassis number off or burn the V5. 

JohnnyPlectrum

p90fool said:

Yes but you wouldn't grind the chassis number off or burn the V5. 

Indeed, find and buy a Colin McRae Subaru Impreza, grind off VIN, burn V5, paint it candy red and try selling it at a premium price as it's a one off.
Also, make sure the listing says 'mint'

Tex Mexico

Honestly, every other week you see some guy flogging a used guitar with non-original pickups in it and he's asking the guitar's new RRP plus the cost of the new pickups.

People are just chancers. I once challenged a guy on it and he told me someone would be prepared to pay extra for the "professional luthiery skills" involved in fitting an aftermarket Seymour Duncan.

JerkMoans

Tex Mexico said:

Honestly, every other week you see some guy flogging a used guitar with non-original pickups in it and he's asking the guitar's new RRP plus the cost of the new pickups.

People are just chancers. I once challenged a guy on it and he told me someone would be prepared to pay extra for the "professional luthiery skills" involved in fitting an aftermarket Seymour Duncan.

For that kind of craftsmanship you need a Luther.

HAL9000

My MIM Strat has got upgraded pickups and a Callaham sustain block. If I ever come to sell it I’m fully aware that, despite it being a quantifiably better instrument, I will certainly lose money on it. Would I regret it? Definitely not, because I’ve now had several years of enjoying it more than I would have had I left it alone. Any mods are done for my benefit - not for some future owner’s benefit - and if I lose out later then so be it.