Reappraising the 490R and 498T

stickyfiddle

TTBZ said:

I think they’re perfect in an SG if you play anything heavy and aggressive which imo is what SGs are best for. I’ve used shit loads of pickups in mine and I wish I didn’t sell off the stock pickups as I’m now on the lookout for a set again as they’re great all rounders. I didn’t like them so much in a Les Paul where they go a bit muddy and dull. The 490r balances fine with the 498t in an SG. I don’t like super low output bridge pickups for an SG, it just sounds a bit limp to me.

Agree 100% for heaviest styles. I have 57 Classics in my SG as I generally prefer more vintage stuff and a little bit more subtlety. 

But for heavier stuff (and 90’s rock type stuff in particular) they’re fantastic. 

Alnico

I checked my Firebird while the strings are off and I'm making/fitting a new nut.

 I have these...

https://i.imgur.com/fOtj6wO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/S87qINg.jpg

I don't have a clue what they are because there's no markings on either of them other than "Gibson USA".

Any Gibson fans know what these are?

Kittyfrisk

Alnico said:

I checked my Firebird while the strings are off and I'm making/fitting a new nut.

 I have these...

https://i.imgur.com/fOtj6wO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/S87qINg.jpg

I don't have a clue what they are because there's no markings on either of them other than "Gibson USA".

Any Gibson fans know what these are by looking?

They are the 'wrong ones'.
Should be mini humbuckers in a Firebird, it's the rules 

roberty

Alnico said:

I checked my Firebird while the strings are off and I'm making/fitting a new nut.

 I have these...

https://i.imgur.com/fOtj6wO.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/S87qINg.jpg

I don't have a clue what they are because there's no markings on either of them other than "Gibson USA".

Any Gibson fans know what these are?

 Do you have a multimeter?

Philly_Q

Alnico said:

Any Gibson fans know what these are by looking?

See the two rows of holes in the baseplates?  They're in two different spacings, approx 49-50mm on one side and 52-53mm on the other side.  That means they can use the same baseplates for the R (neck) and T (bridge) pickups.

If your polepiece spacing is wider at the bridge than the neck, the bridge pickup is probably a 490T, 498T or 500T and the neck pickup is a 490R or 496R.  If it's a Firebird Studio, I think they were 498T/490R.

Gibson's more vintage styled pickups like the 57 Classics, Burstbuckers etc have the same polepiece spacing at neck and bridge (unless there's been a recent change).

Alnico

It's got the "Wrong" everything. The neck is wrong, the body is wrong, it only really shares the outline and hardware placement with the Firebird. I think it's a one piece body but I'm not sure, Gibsons really aren't my main thing.

What I love about it is how it's like a massive SG, even the body is thinner than a normal Firebird and that has a huge impact on how it sounds. Like a bite-y SG but with more lower-mid to it.

Whatever the pickups are they're staying, it sounds amazing as it is.

Alnico

Philly_Q said:

Alnico said:

Any Gibson fans know what these are by looking?

See the two rows of holes in the baseplates?  They're in two different spacings, approx 49-50mm on one side and 52-53mm on the other side.  That means they can use the same baseplates for the R (neck) and T (bridge) pickups.

If your polepiece spacing is wider at the bridge than the neck, the bridge pickup is probably a 490T, 498T or 500T and the neck pickup is a 490R or 496R.  If it's a Firebird Studio, I think they were 498T/490R.

Gibson's more vintage styled pickups like the 57 Classics, Burstbuckers etc have the same spacing at neck and bridge (unless there's been a recent change).

That's brilliant thank you for that!

It is a bog standard Firebird Studio and I always thought they were 498T and 490R but I've never bothered to check until now. Very handy to know how to recognise them, thanks for that.

Alnico

@roberty ;

Yes I do.

I should check them and report back...should have thought of that first really!

Philly_Q

I had a Firebird Studio for a while.  It had the usual Gibson finish flaws, dry fretboard etc and I could have done without the slim-taper neck, but I quite liked it.  It was big and relatively heavy, but balanced nicely.  I agree with your SG comparison, it was like an SG on steroids.

Alnico

Philly_Q said:

I had a Firebird Studio for a while.  It had the usual Gibson finish flaws, dry fretboard etc and I could have done without the slim-taper neck, but I quite liked it.  It was big and relatively heavy, but balanced nicely.  I agree with your SG comparison, it was like an SG on steroids.

Mine is in great condition for its age and the finish is good although now it’s naturally aged and the small amount of actual wear looks very in keeping. 

The board wasn’t brilliant at first but I spent a while working on it and it’s a really nice dark colour now. 

This is my favourite guitar. It won’t do everything but it’s the most fun out of them all and it’s my favourite. 

roberty

Alnico said:

@roberty ;

Yes I do.

I should check them and report back...should have thought of that first really!

 Cool you know you can measure them on the other end of a jack lead plugged into the guitar. Just saying cos I didn't know for ages and felt silly when I was told

Alnico

roberty said:

Alnico said:

@roberty ;;

Yes I do.

I should check them and report back...should have thought of that first really!

 Cool you know you can measure them on the other end of a jack lead plugged into the guitar. Just saying cos I didn't know for ages and felt silly when I was told

I did know but thanks, I really appreciate it.

I didn't really get to spend enough time with the guitars tonight and what time I did get I used making a nut but I'll have another look at the pickups tomorrow.

Seziertisch

gringopig said:

Caffeine_Vampire said:

@gringopig ;;

So you have your guitars fitted with £10 Chinese humbucker clones then?

I'm playing clean through an EL84 Marshall.  No pedals.

LOL no I have Monty's PAFs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MD5VL0DVuk

Very nice comparison. Well done.

gringopig

.

Alnico

Well...

The neck pickup reads 7.65 and the Bridge reads 13.19.

Something needs doing about this and it's clearly a bit longer than I thought since I heard this guitar plugged in. It did sound great last time I played it and that bridge pickup resistance seems an ok figure, enough that if I replaced them and the new ones were 13 or 14k Wouldn't feel cheated.

I checked some of our other guitars too.

PRS with Dimarzio Gravity Storm humbuckers - Neck - 12.22, Bridge - 14.76 (Coil Split Neck - 7.07, Bridge 7.47)

Route '66 Tele with Japanese Fender vintage re-issue pickups - Neck - 6.93, Bridge - 6.06

Explorer with Seymour Duncan Jazz Blues in both positions - Neck 16.38, Bridge - 16.16

All were measured using a new Multimeter, set to 20k Ohms and using a brand new Boss guitar lead 20ft long. All knobs turned up full, switch in correct position and each reading is an average of three readings per pickup. Also it's like a fucking sauna in our room right now and there's a gentle breeze blowing in through the west facing window, wafting the scent of fresh flowers around the room...in case that makes a difference to the zen-boutique-ists?

gringopig

.

Alnico

gringopig said:

Can you measure the resistance of the cable just for accurate calibration. Also, what flowers. This is important!

0.45m Ohms.

Pretty much as close to nothing as thin air.

It was Tulips.

Bought by my Mother on a Saturday and placed in a vase AFTER 4pm. I'm aware that this might mean my pickups aren't timed properly but the whole room is very inspiring now, it literally smells of Mojo so I thought things would be ok.

Just goes to show how finicky the world of pickups can be eh?

Alnico

Holding my hands up to this....I'm a tit.

I'm not massively experienced with Gibsons and didn't realise that the neck pickup is supposed to be that much lower in resistance than the bridge. I obviously knew there was a difference as there is with all guitars but I thought it was a much more subtle difference and when I saw a figure of almost half what the bridge reads, I presumed it was only working on one coil.

What's worse is I'm not massively experienced in electronics either so I shouldn't really be spouting off about shit I'm not 100% sure about.

According to a friend who knows about these things there's nothing wrong with these pickups or that reading and while other brands might have higher readings, for standard factory pickups those numbers are fine.

Updating this in case this thread comes back in the future and makes me look the fucking idiot I look and feel right now.

Glad I don't have to replace pickups for repair but eventually I think I'll put something a bit more powerful in the Firebird.

Have a laugh on me.

Philly_Q

Alnico said:

Holding my hands up to this....I'm a tit.

I'm not massively experienced with Gibsons and didn't realise that the neck pickup is supposed to be that much lower in resistance than the bridge. I obviously knew there was a difference as there is with all guitars but I thought it was a much more subtle difference and when I saw a figure of almost half what the bridge reads, I presumed it was only working on one coil.

I don't know this for sure, but based on the DC readings I've always assumed the 498T uses a thinner gauge of wire in the pickup coils - maybe 43 gauge as opposed to 42 gauge (perhaps) in the 490R.  That gives a big jump in DC resistance but it doesn't mean the pickup is much more powerful.

Alnico

Philly_Q said:

Alnico said:

Holding my hands up to this....I'm a tit.

I'm not massively experienced with Gibsons and didn't realise that the neck pickup is supposed to be that much lower in resistance than the bridge. I obviously knew there was a difference as there is with all guitars but I thought it was a much more subtle difference and when I saw a figure of almost half what the bridge reads, I presumed it was only working on one coil.

I don't know this for sure, but based on the DC readings I've always assumed the 498T uses a thinner gauge of wire in the pickup coils - maybe 43 gauge as opposed to 42 gauge (perhaps) in the 490R.  That gives a big jump in DC resistance but it doesn't mean the pickup is much more powerful.

Thanks Phil,

I'm starting to understand. I think it just freaked me out that there might have been a problem with what is arguably my favourite guitar of my lifetime and then reacted with a lack of knowledge and experience.

I've started making concerted efforts to learn basic electronics at least up to a point of being able to work on whatever guitars need. I have little desire and probably not enough years left to learn about amps but being able to do this stuff in future will be very useful.

It doesn't sound bad or particularly unbalanced so it can remain as it is now with a but more peace of mind.

Thanks for the info, that makes some sense.