Fender HSS customshop - how much????

ICBM

Fender need to find some way of paying off their half-billion-dollar debt...

CS guitars are always good in my experience - many great - but that’s a ridiculous price for any bolt-on solid body guitar, no matter how much hand finishing has been done.

chris78

ICBM said:

Fender need to find some way of paying off their half-billion-dollar debt...

CS guitars are always good in my experience - many great - but that’s a ridiculous price for any bolt-on solid body guitar, no matter how much hand finishing has been done.

Take the point about a bolt on, but Gibson want £5200 plus for an r9. Is there £1200 extra labour in a Les paul?

p90fool

Philly_Q said:

My CS hardtail Strat was £2.7k in 2016.  They really have gone up a lot the last few years.

So has the Dollar for us. 

crunchman

Whitecat said:

If the pandemic goes on too long they may need to revisit their pricing strategy...

I expect they will need to revisit it anyway.  £3.5k for a bolt on is ridiculous.   People won't pay it, and they just won't sell in sufficient quantity.

It may be that they will accept smaller volume and go for bigger margins, but that will mean laying off staff.

ICBM

chris78 said:

Take the point about a bolt on, but Gibson want £5200 plus for an r9. Is there £1200 extra labour in a Les paul?

No, and that’s a stupid price too.

Gibson are in similar financial trouble.

Keefy

thegummy said:

Schnozz said:

Look to the alternatives and sod Fender.

To be honest if I was going to be spending 2-3 grand on a Strat I can't think of anything I'd consider over a Fender CS except maaaaybe (but probably not) a Silver Sky.

Just can't think of a reason to go for any other brand or what advantage they could have.

Which ones have you tried?

idiotwindow

There are still a few brand new CS Fenders at dealers under £3k if you are willing to buy from stock rather than make a genuine custom order. Coda have some Strats and Teles in the £2,600 range and even Guitar Village (albeit during the boss gone mad offer last week) had a few very attractive CS guitars at around £2,400.

RandallFlagg

Regardless of the price issue, the advantages of a Custom Shop over a factory Fender are enough to keep me interested. The light weight wood for one along with centre seam 2 piece bodies rather than 3 piece with visible seams in odd places. Plus quartersawn necks, better fret work, relicing (which some find distasteful) and nicer sounding pickups and better, thinner, nitro paintwork. 

I had one of the new US American Pros recently and it felt pretty sterile and characterless compared to a CS Strat, and it was heavy too. Does that make the CS worth £3.5K? Dunno, but I will pay it. Over £4K though starts to make my arse nip up.

crunchman

You could find a really good UK luthier to make you a bolt on for well under £3.5k.

Ok, it won't have the name on the headstock, but I'm coming to the realisation that Fender and Gibson are just great big corporates after out money.

Some of the other US makers are a bit better.  PRS is still controlled by Paul Smith, and Martin are still run by the Martin family, for what that's worth.  Even then, I'd rather have an Atkin than a Martin - especially when all new Martins seem to be 1 3/4" nut width, with no option for 1 11/16".  That's the big company for you again.

stickyfiddle

I'd go MJT or SCRelics or similar. Even with top-spec parts and a decent luthier to build & setup you should come out under 1500. You'd lose more than that in day-1 depreciation alone with the Fender one. 

fretfinder

I think the “Master Design” guitars are the product of the worst sort of marketing bullshit. They’re built by exactly the same people who make the team-built models. But just because one of the master builders specced a guitar run and said let’s have that fret wire, that radius and a treble bleed mod (or whatever) they cost a grand or so more than the equivalent team built guitar. They also cause confusion in the used market and encourage sellers to blur the line between MB and MD guitars - a great opportunity for less reputable dealers (present company excepted Mark!). I can just imagine the Fender marketing and product design meeting - “we need a price point in between team built and master built, any ideas...?” 

guitars4you

fretfinder said:

I think the “Master Design” guitars are the product of the worst sort of marketing bullshit. They’re built by exactly the same people who make the team-built models. But just because one of the master builders specced a guitar run and said let’s have that fret wire, that radius and a treble bleed mod (or whatever) they cost a grand or so more than the equivalent team built guitar. They also cause confusion in the used market and encourage sellers to blur the line between MB and MD guitars - a great opportunity for less reputable dealers (present company excepted Mark!). I can just imagine the Fender marketing and product design meeting - “we need a price point in between team built and master built, any ideas...?” 

effectively what you said is about right - Fender have an 'ala carte menu' of options to create your own custom order

I can order my own spec'd guitars in the same way and have done so many times - ditto Peach, Coda, GAK, GG etc etc - But they carry no additional 'marketing tag'

A Masterbuilder does exactly the same thing - spec's a guitar to be team built and it now becomes a 'marketing tag' - The only thing I would add to this is sometimes they might add say a tweak to the pick-ups that is not available on regular orders - Or a couple of years ago I think it was John Cruz that spec'd a run with a brass trem block - So sometimes they might have something unique about them be it a custom neck shape or colour, in order to try and justify an additional price tweak

thegummy

Keefy said:

thegummy said:

Schnozz said:

Look to the alternatives and sod Fender.

To be honest if I was going to be spending 2-3 grand on a Strat I can't think of anything I'd consider over a Fender CS except maaaaybe (but probably not) a Silver Sky.

Just can't think of a reason to go for any other brand or what advantage they could have.

Which ones have you tried?

I take it you have a follow up comment planned after I list the ones I've tried so rather than bother listing brands, is there a specific one you're going to mention?

More importantly, what does that brand offer that can't be had on Fender CS?

Keefy

thegummy said:

Keefy said:

thegummy said:

Schnozz said:

Look to the alternatives and sod Fender.

To be honest if I was going to be spending 2-3 grand on a Strat I can't think of anything I'd consider over a Fender CS except maaaaybe (but probably not) a Silver Sky.

Just can't think of a reason to go for any other brand or what advantage they could have.

Which ones have you tried?

I take it you have a follow up comment planned after I list the ones I've tried so rather than bother listing brands, is there a specific one you're going to mention?

More importantly, what does that brand offer that can't be had on Fender CS?

You've actually answered my question there, i.e. you have tried others.

thegummy

Keefy said:

thegummy said:

Keefy said:

thegummy said:

Schnozz said:

Look to the alternatives and sod Fender.

To be honest if I was going to be spending 2-3 grand on a Strat I can't think of anything I'd consider over a Fender CS except maaaaybe (but probably not) a Silver Sky.

Just can't think of a reason to go for any other brand or what advantage they could have.

Which ones have you tried?

I take it you have a follow up comment planned after I list the ones I've tried so rather than bother listing brands, is there a specific one you're going to mention?

More importantly, what does that brand offer that can't be had on Fender CS?

You've actually answered my question there, i.e. you have tried others.

I think I might understand where you're coming from - as much variation as there is between Fender CS models (neck profiles etc.), a model from another brand could still be different to any of them in the subtle shapings. So it's not that they offer anything objectively superior, they may just feel different which is a reason someone might prefer one from another brand.

I think possibly the reason I overlooked that is because whenever I've tried high end guitars they pretty much all feel great but possibly if I played one for a decent amount of time rather than just getting shots of them or trying them in shops, the subtle differences in feel would become more apparent.

Keefy

thegummy said:

Keefy said:

thegummy said:

Keefy said:

thegummy said:

Schnozz said:

Look to the alternatives and sod Fender.

To be honest if I was going to be spending 2-3 grand on a Strat I can't think of anything I'd consider over a Fender CS except maaaaybe (but probably not) a Silver Sky.

Just can't think of a reason to go for any other brand or what advantage they could have.

Which ones have you tried?

I take it you have a follow up comment planned after I list the ones I've tried so rather than bother listing brands, is there a specific one you're going to mention?

More importantly, what does that brand offer that can't be had on Fender CS?

You've actually answered my question there, i.e. you have tried others.

I think I might understand where you're coming from - as much variation as there is between Fender CS models (neck profiles etc.), a model from another brand could still be different to any of them in the subtle shapings. So it's not that they offer anything objectively superior, they may just feel different which is a reason someone might prefer one from another brand.

I think possibly the reason I overlooked that is because whenever I've tried high end guitars they pretty much all feel great but possibly if I played one for a decent amount of time rather than just getting shots of them or trying them in shops, the subtle differences in feel would become more apparent.

Funny you should mention the variation. My CS Strat is a replica of a transitional '59 model. I was in Guitar Guitar in Epsom and came across one ostensibly built to the same spec. It felt, sounded and played completely different!

For some people (and for whatever reason) it has to be a Fender, so no other brand would get a look-in. My 'best' Tele is actually a Palir Titan. The advantage it has over the Fender Teles I have tried is the sound, specifically in the middle position. It is so good that it made me overlook the colour (which I quickly got used to) and the tweaked headstock shape (which can be annoying if using a Hercules stand).

chris78

Funny, I had a palir Titan. It was a black and white American flag model that looked stunning. Amazing roasted neck. Sounded like shit. Might have been the porter pickups, but I couldn’t bear it. I’d take a cs any day

Keefy

chris78 said:

Funny, I had a palir Titan. It was a black and white American flag model that looked stunning. Amazing roasted neck. Sounded like shit. Might have been the porter pickups, but I couldn’t bear it. I’d take a cs any day

It might surprise you but - I'm not that surprised! Quiet apart from the personal preference thing, I tried a couple of other Palir models at the same time (at World Guitars) and neither of them floated my boat. But this one I couldn't put down, so I bought it.

crunchman

Keefy said:

chris78 said:

Funny, I had a palir Titan. It was a black and white American flag model that looked stunning. Amazing roasted neck. Sounded like shit. Might have been the porter pickups, but I couldn’t bear it. I’d take a cs any day

It might surprise you but - I'm not that surprised! Quiet apart from the personal preference thing, I tried a couple of other Palir models at the same time (at World Guitars) and neither of them floated my boat. But this one I couldn't put down, so I bought it.

That happens with Fender as well.  My Strat is an AVRI 62 reissue rather than CS, but it just has something that others don't.  I wasn't actually looking for a guitar when I bought it.  I was in a shop trying out an amp, and used that Strat as it was hanging on the wall and looked nice.  It was so good that I went back and bought it.  I've tried several other AVRI 62s and none of them are anything like mine.

I suspect that there is a higher chance of getting a really great one from the Custom Shop - at a guess maybe 1 in 4 rather than 1 in 10 - but they still vary.

ICBM

crunchman said:

That happens with Fender as well.  My Strat is an AVRI 62 reissue rather than CS, but it just has something that others don't.  I wasn't actually looking for a guitar when I bought it.  I was in a shop trying out an amp, and used that Strat as it was hanging on the wall and looked nice.  It was so good that I went back and bought it.  I've tried several other AVRI 62s and none of them are anything like mine.

I suspect that there is a higher chance of getting a really great one from the Custom Shop - at a guess maybe 1 in 4 rather than 1 in 10 - but they still vary.

That is very true, but the difference I’ve noticed is that the other three will all be good, even if not great - whereas with the non-CS, three of the other nine will be good, five will be average to dull, and one will be an outright dog that no amount of work will fix.*

I don’t know whether the CS is able to select the parts well enough in the first place that they simply never make the dull ones or the dogs, or whether they’re ruthless in scrapping them if they do - either would produce the result. Whether that success rate justifies the current pricing is a different question...

(*99% of statistics are made up on the spot. But that’s roughly something like it.)