Fender HSS customshop - how much????

guitars4you

ICBM said:

crunchman said:

That happens with Fender as well.  My Strat is an AVRI 62 reissue rather than CS, but it just has something that others don't.  I wasn't actually looking for a guitar when I bought it.  I was in a shop trying out an amp, and used that Strat as it was hanging on the wall and looked nice.  It was so good that I went back and bought it.  I've tried several other AVRI 62s and none of them are anything like mine.

I suspect that there is a higher chance of getting a really great one from the Custom Shop - at a guess maybe 1 in 4 rather than 1 in 10 - but they still vary.

That is very true, but the difference I’ve noticed is that the other three will all be good, even if not great - whereas with the non-CS, three of the other nine will be good, five will be average to dull, and one will be an outright dog that no amount of work will fix.*

I don’t know whether the CS is able to select the parts well enough in the first place that they simply never make the dull ones or the dogs, or whether they’re ruthless in scrapping them if they do - either would produce the result. Whether that success rate justifies the current pricing is a different question...

(*99% of statistics are made up on the spot. But that’s roughly something like it.)

The plus point for Fender is that if the wood blanks for a body are to heavy, sound dead etc, then they can move such 'rejects' down the line to a lower price point  - So less/little wastage as such

Also agree that whilst you might prefer one CS Strat amongst 10 on the wall, the chances are that the other 9 are still good examples - In the last 5 years I have only sent back 2 CS Strats to Fender, that when they arrived they sounded lifeless - I'm sure Fender will just send such guitars out to another dealer who is less fussy 

ravirajani

I'm not a fan of those 69 pickups. They're very low output and lacking in bass.

thegummy

These stats/figures etc. are, of course, all pretty much guesses (including what I have in my head which probably has less basis than any of the ones posted) but I have to admit I'm surprised at some of the estimates being given.

E.g. 10% of American Fenders being dogs? Surely that's not the case, is it? Again, I haven't tested even close to enough to be relevant, I'm just surprised and must have been lucky with the ones I have bought/played.

Also very surprised at the thought of only a quarter of CS Strats being really great - my perception is that they're given a lot more time and attention for every instrument than the non-CS ones so would expect the majority of them to be very good or even great.

Maybe I've been completely duped by perception and CS guitars aren't all given the attention and time that I thought; maybe they're more just glorified production line guitars than I had thought.

Just to express again, my perceptions are not backed by evidence, I'm just posting to say how different my perceptions are to others' (whose may well be backed by a lot more evidence).

Out of interest - does anyone know if the way Fender distribute bodies through the ranges - would they make a certain number of alder Strat bodies then sort them by weight and then use the heavier ones for cheaper guitars and vice versa? Or do they make bodies specifically for each range before knowing how the bodies will turn out? (i.e. can one get lucky and buy a Mexican Standard that just happens to have an extremely lightweight body or would a body like that have been assigned to a higher end model?

From my infinitesimally small sample size (my avatar pic) the outer 2 guitars both have 2012 American Standard necks and trems, same Schaller tuners but one body is American Standard and the other is Mexican Player with the latter being the heavier guitar.

Whitecat

thegummy said:

Out of interest - does anyone know if the way Fender distribute bodies through the ranges - would they make a certain number of alder Strat bodies then sort them by weight and then use the heavier ones for cheaper guitars and vice versa? Or do they make bodies specifically for each range before knowing how the bodies will turn out? (i.e. can one get lucky and buy a Mexican Standard that just happens to have an extremely lightweight body or would a body like that have been assigned to a higher end model?

As I understand it the wood is sorted before being turned into bodies - so alder, ash blanks etc are divvied up according to weight, with the lightest going to the Custom Shop and the heavier stuff going to the rest of the operation. However, it's all relative, so one day you might get a truckload of stuff that is just all on the particularly light side, and that means that some of that may end up outside the CS because they can only take so much at a time. If you pay the CS to "sort for light weight" then someone will go through whatever they have on hand and choose the lightest boards... otherwise it's "off the top of the pile" - and of course, pure chance being what it is, sometimes both of these things could end up with the same result and with one you'd be charged extra anyway.

guitars4you

thegummy said:

These stats/figures etc. are, of course, all pretty much guesses (including what I have in my head which probably has less basis than any of the ones posted) but I have to admit I'm surprised at some of the estimates being given.

E.g. 10% of American Fenders being dogs? Surely that's not the case, is it? Again, I haven't tested even close to enough to be relevant, I'm just surprised and must have been lucky with the ones I have bought/played.

Also very surprised at the thought of only a quarter of CS Strats being really great - my perception is that they're given a lot more time and attention for every instrument than the non-CS ones so would expect the majority of them to be very good or even great.

appreciate that many FB members have had their 10 penneth on this - My point is that if you try 10 then chances are that there is one or two that you'll prefer - Prefer is a matter of taste and not better/worse - Another player will try the same 10 and may well prefer another guitar to you - So more about preference

I have returned 2 guitars in the last 5 years - sold /purchased maybe 500 in that time - Both returned models just sounded dead/lifeless - But after that IMO it has been more about preference 

Finding a CS dog is a rare occurrence - So much so that if you buy a CS via mail order, from any authorized UK dealer, then chances of finding a bad example are very low

guitars4you

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/fender-custom-shop/guitars/electric/

Looks like they have a host of such guitars now - Some look more interesting than others but all 4K-ish

boogieman

£4400 for this?  Jesus wept.

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/190327341406008-4446311--fender-custom-shop-1967-tele-heavy-relic-chocolate-3-to

ICBM

boogieman said:

£4400 for this?  Jesus wept.

I can't decide whether it's actually worse that they give you a choice of which exact pattern of stencilled fakery you want, or not...

It's so far away from the concept of a guitar as a working tool which gets used and naturally worn it's ridiculous.

crunchman

boogieman said:

£4400 for this?  Jesus wept.

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/190327341406008-4446311--fender-custom-shop-1967-tele-heavy-relic-chocolate-3-to

Add another £500 to get it refinished because of the ridiculous relic job.

GoldenEraGuitars

boogieman said:

£4400 for this?  Jesus wept.

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/190327341406008-4446311--fender-custom-shop-1967-tele-heavy-relic-chocolate-3-to

£500 less than the deposit for our house. 

SteveRobinson

boogieman said:

£4400 for this?  Jesus wept.

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/190327341406008-4446311--fender-custom-shop-1967-tele-heavy-relic-chocolate-3-to

"Simulated fret wear"?

I hope they mean fretboard wear!

RandallFlagg

SteveRobinson said:

boogieman said:

£4400 for this?  Jesus wept.

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/190327341406008-4446311--fender-custom-shop-1967-tele-heavy-relic-chocolate-3-to

"Simulated fret wear"?

I hope they mean fretboard wear!

I like it, quite a lot. It would pair up with my thinline Strat nicely:

Philly_Q

Ah, good to see that even with the country in crisis the FretBoard can still get wound up about relics.

boogieman

Philly_Q said:

Ah, good to see that even with the country in crisis the FretBoard can still get wound up about relics.

I actually don’t mind relics, I’ve got one myself and I quite like that thinline Strat ^. The Tele though... it’s the worst combination of terrible pseudo wear and shiny hardware. I’ve never seen a real worn guitar that looks anything remotely like that, especially that forearm wear. It’s like one of those naff eBay belt sander jobs. The £4k price tag just adds insult to injury.  

ICBM

boogieman said:

I actually don’t mind relics, I’ve got one myself and I quite like that thinline Strat ^. The Tele though... it’s the worst combination of terrible pseudo wear and shiny hardware. I’ve never seen a real worn guitar that looks anything remotely like that, especially that forearm wear. It’s like one of those naff eBay belt sander jobs. The £4k price tag just adds insult to injury.  

This. I don't mind sensible relics where it's done well.

None of those look remotely like old guitars at all, and no it isn't just a "finish choice". They are intended to look old and worn... but they're just done badly.

stratcat

When the relics were first introduced they looked right. Now, they are like cartoons of worn guitars.

The whole point of Fenders were that they were relatively cheap to make on a production line in comparison to the guitars of the day. I think Leo would be shaking his head in amazement at the money being made from these.