The mystery that is neck relief

JanekLubanski

Dead straight neck? Or relief of anything between 0.1mm up to say (for discussion purposes) 0.5mm at whatever fret that you choose to measure from using the straight string with capo on first fret and depress string at the fret where the trussrod ends/ neck meets guitar body method. I just can't comprehend what difference a fraction of a millimetre will make....like the difference say between 0.1 and 0.25 of a millimetre. I just check that there is no backbow to the neck and have my action set to around 2.5mm on low E and 2mm on high e at 12th fret. No faffing around with relief.

Roland

Oh I definitely want neck relief. Otherwise the strings would get further and further from the frets as you move up the neck, making playing at the top end more difficult.

ICBM

It’s because a vibrating string moves in an arc, with a larger movement in the middle of the string, so to avoid fret rattle you need a little more clearance there. Not much though - and not necessary at all if the bridge is high enough that the straight line across the top of the frets is outside that arc - which it might need to be to avoid the strings choking when you bend them at the higher frets.

p90fool

Don't underestimate the importance of playing technique either, there is a taste element to add to the "correct" element too. 

stonevibe

TRAIN - Tune It Up, set the Relief, adjust the Action, set the Intonation and then Noodle (repeat until satisfied)

guitars4you

I personally have very little neck relief - I don't measure it, just a visual guide - But as little gap as possible for me - But I play with a very light touch, and stroke the strings - A more 'aggressive' player aka SRV etc will need more relief to allow the string to vibrate freely 

Again it will always depend on the player, how much gain they use, as a shed load of gain hides a multitude of sins, plus what tolerance the player has to a hint of string 'rattle' 

To me the guitar is hard enough to play as it is, so a slick easy 'girly' action is my requirement

fields5069

I am forever adjusting my guitars between less relief and higher action, and more relief with lower action. The latter usually means there's some choking up at the dusty end. I've also found that the best, "loosest" feel doesn't always come from the lower action.

I also found that I hate any buzz, and the best way for me to avoid that is to play with fingers.

richardhomer

I generally favour very little relief as I don’t have a particularly heavy right hand technique. That said, completely straight isn’t a good idea in my experience - most necks have some ‘flex’ which is excited by string vibrations that without some relief can be much worse, exacerbating fret buzz and any dead spots.

captainbeeffart

The way i like it is, a little relief from dead straight, so if you had no string tension the neck, the neck would be straight adding string tension should then add a little relief.

Fishboy7

I never measure it. I just keep tweaking until it feels right. 

Sassafras

I'm very heavy handed so my necks are like bananas.

guitars4you

Sassafras said:

I'm very heavy handed so my necks are like bananas.

and that is what makes it very awkward at times when sending out a guitar mail order - Best for the dealer to ask if any tweaks required - I would imagine with out any tweaks you'd make a PRS buzz like hell - Fine if you are aware why and can make your own adjustments to suit

Slash'N'burn

It's complicated, depends on guitar type, how low you like the action etc.

My LP is setup with very light relief of 0.07mm, and a very low action (1mm at 12th fret high E), no buzz.

Too much relief with a low action could cause some choking when bending at the frets where the relief is highest.

Low relief & low action may only be buzz free if the frets have been levelled.

Look at how a string vibrates, the point of most movement is not where the neck relief is greatest.

FelineGuitars

I'm awkward - I think about relief in thousandths of an inch rather than mm - comes from being mentored by Dan Erlewine (lol)

As much as anything I found using feeler gauges in thousandths of an inch  really easy - and we tend to under stand what 9 thou looks like from the diameter of a high E string in a popular string set.

I set my own necks anywhere between 0.004" to 0.009" generally but a neck can be quite comfy all the way up to 0.015"

It's possibly gotten to the point that I can eyeball the gap and know how much relief there is , and all guitars seem to have their own preferred setting , or range of setting depending how you play

RonnieHotdogs

It depends on player and individual guitar so much ,the op has action of 2.5mm and 2mm on 12th fret, that's too high for me, even my acoustics are lower than that.
Rickenbackers work with an almost dead straight neck and low action like no other brand I've experienced. I guess it's down to fret work. 
I start with the neck flat and slowly increase relief until any buzz goes, on a Rickenbacker that can be 4 or 5 thousandths, Fenders I 
normally have about 10 thousandths, other Chinese guitars need about 12.

I don't like a lot of relief as it increases action around 7th to 10th fret, I play lots of open chords up there, but I don't like fret buzz either. Get the frets right and you should be able to set it how you want.

ICBM

RonnieHotdogs said:

Rickenbackers work with an almost dead straight neck and low action like no other brand I've experienced. I guess it's down to fret work.

I think it's because with their double truss rods, Rickenbacker necks are very stiff - so they don't vibrate in the opposite direction from the strings as much - which all necks do to some extent - and so don't need as much clearance.

In my opinion this is also a big part of the unique sound of Ricks, both guitars and basses - more so than the pickups, in fact.

Sassafras

guitars4you said:

Sassafras said:

I'm very heavy handed so my necks are like bananas.

and that is what makes it very awkward at times when sending out a guitar mail order - Best for the dealer to ask if any tweaks required - I would imagine with out any tweaks you'd make a PRS buzz like hell - Fine if you are aware why and can make your own adjustments to suit

Funnily enough my PRS has probably got the flattest relief of any of my other guitars and I can still bash the strings hard.

SteveF

FelineGuitars said:

I set my own necks anywhere between 0.004" to 0.009" generally but a neck can be quite comfy all the way up to 0.015"

It's possibly gotten to the point that I can eyeball the gap and know how much relief there is , and all guitars seem to have their own preferred setting , or range of setting depending how you play

When you say you set them at that particular height, where is that measured?  Am I right in thinking it's capo at 1st, depress at last fret and measure at 12th?

ICBM

I never set them *to* a specific height - I adjust the relief until the guitar plays best. I sometimes check it afterwards for reference, but it should be that way round in my opinion. Even a couple of thou either way can make a fairly big difference to the amount of fret rattle, so you want to set it by ear (and hand) and not by measurement. A quick visual check - I do it by fretting the G string at the first fret and the first that's on the body, and looking at the gap between the string and the 7th-8th frets - is easily accurate enough to tell you if you're in the right ballpark to begin with... I look for less than half the string diameter if possible. You also must do this with the guitar held in the playing position, since if it's lying down flat the weight of the neck will affect it noticeably.

thegummy

guitars4you said:

Sassafras said:

I'm very heavy handed so my necks are like bananas.

and that is what makes it very awkward at times when sending out a guitar mail order - Best for the dealer to ask if any tweaks required - I would imagine with out any tweaks you'd make a PRS buzz like hell - Fine if you are aware why and can make your own adjustments to suit

That's why it's so silly when people talk about the setup of a stock guitar as if it's a plus or a negative for rating the guitar. The manufacturer can't know what preferences the eventual buyer will want.

It would be like giving Ford a plus point over Vauxhall because the Ford you test drove had its seat and mirrors already adjusted for your height and body proportions while you had to adjust the Vauxhall.

brucegill

Always interesting to hear everyones take on this subject. 

Being bored out of my mind, I decided to try a higher action today - purely because when I first read this I thought the OP had lost his marbles with a 2e-2.5E action on an electric.

I've been playing acoustic for the last year and only recently got back into electric. My acoustics are both lower than the OP uses on his electric (about 1.8e-2E). Got my new guitar a month ago and set that up as low as I could. Gone from 10s to 9.5 and really like them to be honest (always used to play 11s), but nothings really felt right. So today I was going to try 11's. Instead I decided to raise the action from 1.5-1.8 up to 2-2.35. Raised the pups up too to compensate too. WOW, so much bloody nicer! And I can have a slightly flatter neck as well.

So, thanks @JanekLubanski ;