The mystery that is neck relief

thegummy

SteveF said:

FelineGuitars said:

I set my own necks anywhere between 0.004" to 0.009" generally but a neck can be quite comfy all the way up to 0.015"

It's possibly gotten to the point that I can eyeball the gap and know how much relief there is , and all guitars seem to have their own preferred setting , or range of setting depending how you play

When you say you set them at that particular height, where is that measured?  Am I right in thinking it's capo at 1st, depress at last fret and measure at 12th?

I always measure it at the 8th fret and, like ICBM mentions, after setting it to the appropriate relief to make it quicker to return to that in the future; rather than setting it to a specific arbitrary amount to begin with.

artiebear

FelineGuitars said:

I'm awkward - I think about relief in thousandths of an inch rather than mm - comes from being mentored by Dan Erlewine (lol)

As much as anything I found using feeler gauges in thousandths of an inch  really easy - and we tend to under stand what 9 thou looks like from the diameter of a high E string in a popular string set.

I set my own necks anywhere between 0.004" to 0.009" generally but a neck can be quite comfy all the way up to 0.015"

It's possibly gotten to the point that I can eyeball the gap and know how much relief there is , and all guitars seem to have their own preferred setting , or range of setting depending how you play

So true These days I go from guitar to guitar making sure that the neck is as straight as possible for it's purpose. Good technique and touch can seriously benefit from those tiny degrees I remember taking an acoustic guitar back to its' world renowned builder for a once over. While chewing the fat about anything and everything, he pulled the rod (as far as I could see) perfectly straight ( no gauges employed at any point, made a new two piece saddle in minutes., restrung it and its played, and still plays like a thing from the other dimensions. Somewhat counterintuitive but perfect.

BTW, I have always followed Dan E as a guide. That was quite an eyeopener to what tolerances a well set up guitar can follow.

thegummy

Definitely recommend Dan Erlewine's book to anyone starting out.

I got it late on and it was basically a list of all the "right stuff" that I spent a lot of time and effort sieving through a lot of internet research to find.

So basically after a couple of years of obsessive researching and cutting out the crap, only keeping the stuff that worked best, I got the DE book to see if I was missing anything but found it was really a perfectly put together list of what does work best.

If I got the book from day one I could have got the same result from that one book that I got from all the research and experimentation.

SteveF

This one? How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0879309989/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_x2IHEbMPM73MG

JanekLubanski

Thanks to everyone who has posted their views and suggestions about set up and relief in particular. I took the decision to straighten my Tele neck and whack up the action after years of messing about trying all kinds of set up parameters. I'd end up tinkering with set up for about 70% of the time and only playing 30% of the time. I play mostly chords with the occasional half or full note string bend......not a shredder or in any way a technically gifted soloist. I'm  happy to knock out some chords and just want them to sound nice and clear.

Have been reading Bryan Kimseys thoughts/testing variances about relief. He has some interesting findings.

http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/neck_relief_1.htm

thegummy

SteveF said:

This one? How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0879309989/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_x2IHEbMPM73MG

That's the one

Doug

So, do we only all play notes at the first few frets to allow the strings 'wide envelope'/relief/clearance in the middle of the neck?, 
Straight as possible for me, as you were, each to their own, etc, All ears on this one

TforTele

JanekLubanski said:

Thanks to everyone who has posted their views and suggestions about set up and relief in particular. I took the decision to straighten my Tele neck and whack up the action after years of messing about trying all kinds of set up parameters. I'd end up tinkering with set up for about 70% of the time and only playing 30% of the time. I play mostly chords with the occasional half or full note string bend......not a shredder or in any way a technically gifted soloist. I'm  happy to knock out some chords and just want them to sound nice and clear.

Have been reading Bryan Kimseys thoughts/testing variances about relief. He has some interesting findings.

http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/neck_relief_1.htm

Thanks for sharing that, a fascinating read.  The last guitar I bought had pretty much zero relief with the 9s that it came fitted with, but played fine for me.  Put 10s on it recently and still plays fine, slightly more relief just from the tension, of course.  I'm "learning electric" after years on acoustic, so trying to play all over the neck, and no issues.

I wonder how Pleking(?) fits in to all this?

TforTele

JanekLubanski said:

Thanks to everyone who has posted their views and suggestions about set up and relief in particular. I took the decision to straighten my Tele neck and whack up the action after years of messing about trying all kinds of set up parameters. I'd end up tinkering with set up for about 70% of the time and only playing 30% of the time. I play mostly chords with the occasional half or full note string bend......not a shredder or in any way a technically gifted soloist. I'm  happy to knock out some chords and just want them to sound nice and clear.

Have been reading Bryan Kimseys thoughts/testing variances about relief. He has some interesting findings.

http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/neck_relief_1.htm

Thanks for sharing that, a fascinating read.  The last guitar I bought had pretty much zero relief with the 9s that it came fitted with, but played fine for me.  Put 10s on it recently and still plays fine, slightly more relief just from the tension, of course.  I'm "learning electric" after years on acoustic, so trying to play all over the neck, and no issues.

I wonder how Pleking(?) fits in to all this?

Clarky

FelineGuitars said:

I'm awkward - I think about relief in thousandths of an inch rather than mm - comes from being mentored by Dan Erlewine (lol)

As much as anything I found using feeler gauges in thousandths of an inch  really easy - and we tend to under stand what 9 thou looks like from the diameter of a high E string in a popular string set.

I set my own necks anywhere between 0.004" to 0.009" generally but a neck can be quite comfy all the way up to 0.015"

It's possibly gotten to the point that I can eyeball the gap and know how much relief there is , and all guitars seem to have their own preferred setting , or range of setting depending how you play

from personal experience.. your guitars play amazingly

Doug

Doug said:

So, do we only all play notes at the first few frets to allow the strings 'wide envelope'/relief/clearance in the middle of the neck?, 
Straight as possible for me, as you were, each to their own, etc, All ears on this one

Straight as for me, I could be wrong 

thegummy

Doug said:

Doug said:

So, do we only all play notes at the first few frets to allow the strings 'wide envelope'/relief/clearance in the middle of the neck?, 
Straight as possible for me, as you were, each to their own, etc, All ears on this one

Straight as for me, I could be wrong 

I don't think you could be wrong actually, assuming you have tried out various amounts of relief.

I don't know what you're talking about re: the "first few frets" comment but if you prefer a straight neck then it's right for you, personal preference is all it's about.

JanekLubanski

TforTele said:

JanekLubanski said:

Thanks to everyone who has posted their views and suggestions about set up and relief in particular. I took the decision to straighten my Tele neck and whack up the action after years of messing about trying all kinds of set up parameters. I'd end up tinkering with set up for about 70% of the time and only playing 30% of the time. I play mostly chords with the occasional half or full note string bend......not a shredder or in any way a technically gifted soloist. I'm  happy to knock out some chords and just want them to sound nice and clear.

Have been reading Bryan Kimseys thoughts/testing variances about relief. He has some interesting findings.

http://www.bryankimsey.com/setup/neck_relief_1.htm

Thanks for sharing that, a fascinating read.  The last guitar I bought had pretty much zero relief with the 9s that it came fitted with, but played fine for me.  Put 10s on it recently and still plays fine, slightly more relief just from the tension, of course.  I'm "learning electric" after years on acoustic, so trying to play all over the neck, and no issues.

I wonder how Pleking(?) fits in to all this?

At £130 + I reckon Plek isn't viable for me as my guitar didn't cost that much! I'm more of a fret rocker and wife's emery fingernail board bloke.  For a cheapo guitar the frets are pretty uniform in height. I've had to file down only a couple of frets. I'm not a total Heath Robinson and a total amateur......I've got a crowning file!
OK......a little fall off/fall away from fret 17 onwards would be nice.......but it ain't gonna happen. So I'll stick with what I've got.

A cheap guitar.....with a straight neck and a high ish action.  It will do for now.

JanekLubanski

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JanekLubanski

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JanekLubanski

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rsvmark

So as a noob, I asked the fb for collective wisdom on this not so long ago. I purchased the book and a few tools and set about a few of the herd. 

What is interesting in all this that the consensus is very much about what works for you as a player. The problem is that if you don’t know what your preference is, how do you know what your target is? 

After a few months and a few goes at it, I am beginning to understand what I prefer. I have played a guitar with a ruthlessly low action and decided I didn’t like at as much as much as something with a more medium relief/action. This came down to the physical position and feeling of the strings on the fb as I play- stuff too low I feel is too ‘Grindy’ under the finders and I don’t like the sensation. Whereas a medium feel, I quite like the position of the string under the fingers particularly when bending. I kind of get a big handful and have a nice level of control over the pitch.

anyway, that’s my tuppence worth- it’s just a bit hard if, like me, you don’t really know what you are aiming for.