New Paypal terms. Must read for sellers

Heartfeltdawn

http://postandparcel.info/61420/news/markets/eu-strengthens-consumer-rights-over-e-commerce-returns/

Hmmm. Interesting. Private sellers are exempt from these regulations. It sounds like it's simply a fucking mess full stop with a whole raft of rules coming out. As usual, we have a home government saying that red tape is something they wish to cut but the small business seller is going to be squished with new regulations. 

Fazer

its not entirely clear what the extended buyer protection actually covers.

if it means that buyers can claim a 2nd hand item to be faulty after using it for 6 months then that is completely outrageous.

i can see the case for applying the extended 'guarantee' to business sellers selling new items through ebay, but not private sellers with 2nd hand goods.

Fortheloveofguitar

Fazer;264650" said:

i can see the case for applying the extended 'guarantee' to business sellers selling new items through ebay, but not private sellers with 2nd hand goods.

New items are covered under a 12 month manufacturers warranty anyway.

martinw

Hmmm. Calm down.

I read it that the item must be 'not delivered' or 'SNAD' for there to be the possibility of a return and a reimbursement to the buyer.

Not just faulty (after a couple of months, say) or a change of mind. Tracked delivery prevents any issues with the first possibility,  and the second possibility (SNAD) is not affected by an increased time period, i.e. for someone to claim SNAD they would reasonably have to do so within a sensible time period, so within 45 days anyway.

No agreement can override the law of the land, and private sales in the UK are caveat emptor, Paypal aren't trying to force you to give 6 months warranty on things.

The new time periods as I understand it are to counter the problems around event tickets, where fakes may not be discovered until presented at the event, possibly months after purchase.

Hullabaloo, hullabaloo!

Jez6345789

I have 500 quid stuck in dispute hell (paypal locked the money) as we speak its crazy the guy does not respond to PM's telling him how to setup the product up properly so far it rolls on we me sending detailed support solutions (its a bit of tech that needs setting up with a laptop) and the guy will see if one of his children can do it as he cannot use a laptop. Why buy a product even 2nd hand if you have no idea and then claim its defective. 

pretty much done with ebay after this and the latest announcement

stickyfiddle

martinw said:

Hmmm. Calm down.

I read it that the item must be 'not delivered' or 'SNAD' for there to be the possibility of a return and a reimbursement to the buyer.

Not just faulty (after a couple of months, say) or a change of mind. Tracked delivery prevents any issues with the first possibility,  and the second possibility (SNAD) is not affected by an increased time period, i.e. for someone to claim SNAD they would reasonably have to do so within a sensible time period, so within 45 days anyway.

No agreement can override the law of the land, and private sales in the UK are caveat emptor, Paypal aren't trying to force you to give 6 months warranty on things.

The new time periods as I understand it are to counter the problems around event tickets, where fakes may not be discovered until presented at the event, possibly months after purchase.

Hullabaloo, hullabaloo!

The extended time is meant in part to cover crowd funding, presumably because paypal have had claims from kickstarted backers complaining the project has failed, even though that's how kickstarter works and it's in the terms...

In any case, it's not genuine cases that are the problem, it's the scamming gits who'll buy something, use it for 4 months then say it never arrived, conveniently after all the tracking info disappears from the courier's page so the seller can't prove shit. It's too much risk for little guys to be bothered with any more imo.

grungebob

You can screen shot the tracking info for records.

DulcetJones

Between PayPal's lack of support for sellers and many, many, many problems with any or all delivery methods I stopped selling on ebay a long time ago.  So, this is how they think will fix it? 

ICBM

grungebob said:

You can screen shot the tracking info for records.

Unlikely that would be good enough for Paypal, since they don't find other forms of proof acceptable if they don't fall exactly within their rules.

Heartfeltdawn

martinw said:

Hmmm. Calm down.

I read it that the item must be 'not delivered' or 'SNAD' for there to be the possibility of a return and a reimbursement to the buyer.

Not just faulty (after a couple of months, say) or a change of mind. Tracked delivery prevents any issues with the first possibility,  and the second possibility (SNAD) is not affected by an increased time period, i.e. for someone to claim SNAD they would reasonably have to do so within a sensible time period, so within 45 days anyway.

No agreement can override the law of the land, and private sales in the UK are caveat emptor, Paypal aren't trying to force you to give 6 months warranty on things.

The new time periods as I understand it are to counter the problems around event tickets, where fakes may not be discovered until presented at the event, possibly months after purchase.

Hullabaloo, hullabaloo!

For business sellers, and I am one, it's yet another example of uncertainty created by Ebay/Paypal. 

Intangible goods are being brought into line with tangible goods. No problem with that. The uncertainties are huge though. As Tamebay says, "Could a buyer really hold on for nearly six months before filing a claim? Is PayPal competent to adjudicate on such claims dating back a while? How does this play with eBay’s own buyer protection programmes for items that have been bought on eBay?"

The questions still haven't been answered.

Stevepage

just pulled my Jackson off there now. won't be selling anything on there anymore. Already had idiots trying to persuade me to do certain things , not putting up with it anymore

Heartfeltdawn

stickyfiddle said:

The extended time is meant in part to cover crowd funding, presumably because paypal have had claims from kickstarted backers complaining the project has failed, even though that's how kickstarter works and it's in the terms...

So it's bloody Devi Ever's fault then!

Elx

I have never used Ebay in my life, not once...did I miss anything?

not_the_dj

Elx said:

I have never used Ebay in my life, not once...did I miss anything?

Well it really was great for a while, and it is still the best way of getting stuff you're selling to the widest audience. 

JookyChap

Elx said:

I have never used Ebay in my life, not once...did I miss anything?

Yeah, you can buy a guitar, play it for ages until you get bored and then send it back and get another one without losing a penny in depreciation.. Genius really

ICBM

Elx said:

I have never used Ebay in my life, not once...did I miss anything?

It's kind of like missing the the Summer of Love. It was something that changed the world at the time and a lot of people got very wrapped up in, it was good in parts and bad in others, some people had fun, some people made a lot of money, but now it's time to just get on with the harder reality of life once it got all commercialised and lost its original purpose.

Elx

ICBM said:

Elx said:

I have never used Ebay in my life, not once...did I miss anything?

It's kind of like missing the the Summer of Love. It was something that changed the world at the time and a lot of people got very wrapped up in, it was good in parts and bad in others, some people had fun, some people made a lot of money, but now it's time to just get on with the harder reality of life once it got all commercialised and lost its original purpose.

I get it, a bit like Facebook then?   Never had a Facebook account either. Actually I did for two weeks, after I read an article on a study that concluded that people without Facebook are potential serial killers...I lasted 2 weeks, realized I was loosing precious time that could be used to practice guitar on trivial things like who's up to what and what stupid games my friends (who can barely greet me in the hallways at work) are up to...I'm a cynic I guess, and so out of touch with everything that is popular today... But I am no mass murderer!

Fortheloveofguitar

I applaud you buddy for not being one of the Facebook sheeple.

Heartfeltdawn

It's so easy to forget how trivial Facebook is and how life-enhancingly essential guitar forums are.

<sarcasm.off>

Gagaryn

I'm not overly concerned with this. I'm a buyer and a seller on eBay, well over 1000 transactions and I've had about 5 or 6 problems with purchases and only one with a sale. Every time a dispute has been opened I have won the case. Simple precautions make life much easier. And these fraudsters we all seem to be afraid of are very few and far between in reality. Think there is a bit of the fear of the bogeyman going on here.