Installing Schaller Strap Locks

RaymondLin

I want to installed a pair of these on my PRS but fear that I will ruin them so before I do, I have a few questions so would be grateful if someone can confirm something for me:

1 - is it easy as remove old strap buttons and put them in?

2 - which screw do I use, the PRS one or the Schaller ones?

3 - where can I get some fabric/felt to go under the strap lock?

Weirdly, there is no felt under the PRS strap buttons.

Thanks

Richardj

The existing strap buttons should unscrew fairly easily, the key is gentle but firm pressure so you don't mess up either the screw head or chip the finish underneath.  PRS use a screw the same size as Schaller so you could use either.  I like to use felts under the buttons as it does protect the finish.  They are available online from a lot of places.

Richardj

Oh, the screw head is a PH2.

RaymondLin

Richardj said:

Oh, the screw head is a PH2.

Erm, I am not familiar with that term, what does that mean?

I plan to get a pair of these

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000960KNW/ref=gno_cart_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

 

Then just unscrew the PRS lock, use PRS screw if I can and screw it back in?

EricTheWeary

some people will swear by the Schaller ones or the Dunlop ones but it might be worth considering some non invasive alternatives first like Grolsch washers ( see any recent picture of Jonny Marr with a Jaguar).

I've never owed a PRS but I have put Schaller strap locks on and needed to use their own screws. They tend to be slightly larger than the guitar's own so they can get a bite into the wood. Which is fine but if you remove them  you may need to do some minor surgery to get the old strap buttons back in again ( cocktail sticks and wood glue). The straplocks won't work with all straps, at least not without some modification ( they will only accept a quite thin bit of strap) and that can be a PIA. Last, its always worth checking they are in place properly every time you pick up the guitar as the knobbly bits ( technical term) that sit on top of the strap can undo themselves and... well, its not happy. 

GavRichList

I always use the screws that came out of the stock button. That way you know they fit properly. And yes, it is exactly as simple as unscrewing and screwing back up. As above, use the felts too.

RaymondLin

My first choice is to keep the PRS buttons as they are.  However, PRS buttons are VERY low in terms of clearance from the guitar and they are very flat.  So it is very hard to get a strap on in the first place nevermind the Dunlop strap lock (which I have), not tried the washer thing though but i've seen that done.

 

Also, I like to keep my guitar in the case when i am not playing it and PRS cases are design for the guitar and not guitar with strap attached...it's so stupid really !

 

Plus, I've seen horror stories about people's strap rubbing on the surface of the guitar leaving horrible marks when left on permenently.

 

So a few reasons why I like to install the locks but of course I do not want to damage the wood in any way.

ICBM

The reason PRS don't use felt washers is because they allow the button to rock slightly and work loose. It's much better to tighten them up fully with no washer.

The screw from the stock button sometimes won't go into the straplock either.

richardhomer

The 'felts' issue is important on a PRS.

The PRS strap button is modelled on an old Precision Bass string tree. The diameter of the surface that touches the body of the guitar when fitted, is very small.

Schaller Strap Lock buttons are of much greater diameter and it is highly likely that there installation will mark the finish in a way which would be noticeable were you to reinstall the originals (which you might do if you were ever to sell). The V12 finish is very thin and (I am told) quite brittle.

Given that PRS owners like them to be mint, things like this matter.

I am unconvinced that Strap Locks are needed on a PRS. With a properly fitting strap, the standard buttons are very secure. Incidentally, Grolsch washers won't fit.

RaymondLin

I do know that once a strap is fitted on a PRS, it is very secure and don't need strap locks.

 

Perhaps I would just to somehow mod the case as opposed to modding the guitar !

guitargeeksimon

I'm on PRS numbers 9 and 10 and have put Schaller straplocks on all of them without a problem. Always use the original PRS button screw as its usually longer than the schaller one. I cut up a few bits of matchstick and put them in the hole before I put the screw back in the guitar.

Dont over tighten the schaller strap button and you'll have no problem. I've never had one work loose through use after years of gigging (touch wood!)

As far as the bit that goes on the strap is concerned, they can be difficult to get onto thick straps so I usually trim off a tiny bit of leather around the hole of the strap button. When putting the locking bit on the strap, I grip it with pliers so I can tighen the bolt enough. A bit of thread lock helps here

I can see the reason why PRS stock strap buttons are how they are but I've always found them an utter pain to get a strap on and off, over the flange!!

EricTheWeary

richardhomer said:

 Incidentally, Grolsch washers won't fit.

! Well, that's saved me a few grand on the PRS I was going to buy...

Actually its a sufficiently dull Friday afternoon in the office that I had looked on the PRS forum and there are people on there who say they use them but, regardless of the guitar, if you do take the strap off frequently then they aren't great.

For home use and keeping an expensive guitar in best condition I probably wouldn't  fit straplocks, just a quick glance down that the strap is in place properly. If its for gigging then the possible tiny damage done fitting a straplock would be neither here nor then against the other potential causes of harm.

FX_Munkee

I've found the strap locks from Axetec to be pretty much identical to Schaller ones (also handy for extra strap buttons on spare guitars).
They also do the felts for a paltry 50p
linky

Richardj

PH2 is the screwdriver head size to fit the screw and minimize any damage to the screw.  I haven't had any problems with Schaller style locks and as said the PRS screws fit the buttons so you shouldn't have any issues with them.  If you have any probs finding the felts give me a shout as I have a few spares.  Obviously this is all your choice.  Not sure about modding the case though. Just MHO.

xSkarloey

GavHaus said:

I always use the screws that came out of the stock button. That way you know they fit properly. And yes, it is exactly as simple as unscrewing and screwing back up. As above, use the felts too.

That's what I did. Same thread size and just a smidgin shorter than the Schaller ones supplied. 

richardhomer

EricTheWeary;265880" said:

I had looked on the PRS forum and there are people on there who say they use them but, regardless of the guitar, if you do take the strap off frequently then they aren't great.

The diameter of PRS buttons is a lot greater that vintage style Fender ones but the real problem with getting a washer on is that a normal strap pretty much occupies all the space between the (if you'll forgive the expression!) flange of the button and the body of the guitar. In other words, there is literally no room for a washer.

JohnnyPlectrum

PRS screws fit Schaller straplocks. One off, one on just like that.

I had a Gibson Custom Shop that (surprise, surprise) used 2 totally different screws one of which was massively coarse. I just put it in my power drill and then treated that as a lathe while I slightly reduced the head width with an angle grinder for a nice fit in the schaller.

If possible always use the original screws.

Having watched one chap miss an intro to a song as he was swapping guitars that had a tight fitting strap and having watched many guitars fall to the floor I don't see the point in not fitting them.

ICBM

Having had a Schaller lock break I don't see the point in fitting them. False sense of security.

(And that's not counting a couple with broken screws on customers' guitars, or all the ones where the screw pulls out of the wood.)

DartmoorHedgehog

ICBM said:

Having had a Schaller lock break I don't see the point in fitting them. False sense of security.

(And that's not counting a couple with broken screws on customers' guitars, or all the ones where the screw pulls out of the wood.)

Which bit broke, out of interest - the flange on the end of the button?  I've put them on a couple of my guitars (actually one pair is Grover branded, but they're identical), not for security but because the guitars don't fit in their cases properly with straps on and repeatedly removing and refitting a normal strap makes them loose.  I've trimmed the leather around the hole in strap so it sits flat, and done the nut up tightly with a couple of spanners and some thead lock and never had one come loose.  I don't do any "swinging guitars behind my back" stuff though, I'm a fairly boring non-animated player.

I agree that it puts the weight of the guitar on the end of the button, so further away from the body than on a normal strap button - so could put more strain on the screw, but I think you'd have to treat it pretty roughly to break it or pull it out - mine certainly are still secure after a few years.

Si_

ICBM said:

Having had a Schaller lock break I don't see the point in fitting them. False sense of security.

(And that's not counting a couple with broken screws on customers' guitars, or all the ones where the screw pulls out of the wood.)

I've used them on all of my guitars for 10 years, never had any issue with any of them and wouldn't play a guitar live without them. 

I've had screws become loose over time (loose, but never pulled out), but that s a quick and very simple fix (superglue + matchstick), never had one with a broken screw. 

ICBM

Si_ said:

I've used them on all of my guitars for 10 years, never had any issue with any of them and wouldn't play a guitar live without them. 

I've had screws become loose over time (loose, but never pulled out), but that s a quick and very simple fix (superglue + matchstick), never had one with a broken screw. 

I'm sure it's not many, but the fact that it ever happens at all means that you can't trust them.

The one I had, the unit simply broke at the junction between the threaded part and the 'cup' part. Must have been a faulty casting but again, if one can fail then it defeats the point of them being a 'peace of mind' solution - and it's much worse than having to check screws or washers because you don't have any indication of a problem right up to the point it breaks.

I admit I do detest metal straplocks, but with reason - not just my broken Schaller, but the number of customers with guitar damage up to and including broken headstock, from relying on straplocks. Part of the problem is that almost all of them raise the strap too far from the body, which puts a large sideways bending force on the button and the screw - which is why they break, probably. A felt washer makes it even worse.

I would far rather use a standard strap button with a good big screw tight to the body and with the strap held close against the body, and put a washer or some other sort of lock over the top of it to hold it in place. That will not fail.