Gibson SG Junior 2019 models - all one piece bodies now ?

LPManic

StruanRobertson said:

I bought one of the 2019 SG Juniors from GAK. It was two piece, possibly three, it was extremely hard to tell. It was a very nice guitar, but there was some poor finishing on the neck, so I sent it back.

I would also say that the varnish was very thick.

Sounded ace though.

Do you have any photos of it? If I buy, I have to buy blind and trying to get as many different looks at the finishes as possible.

AK99

LPManic said:

@AK99 Have you pulled the trigger on a SG Junior? Looking at buying one myself. So much GAS.

Not as yet. Was focussing in on a '61 reissue with the Vibrola - and got to try a really nice one belonging to a friend locally, then came across this vid, and that's how the Junior came into the frame:



Love both the clean and dirty tones he gets from the Junior at around the 45 secs onwards mark.

I already have far too many twin humbuckered guitars, so the thought of something different in terms of a P90, and perhaps oddly - something with not so many variables to fk about with in the eternal quest for decent tone, appeals hugely

A one piece body (with nice grain) would be nice - but I think I'm warming to the 3 piece bodied options. The logic around the neck join going into a solid central lump of mahogany seems to make sense.

Problem I find here in Ireland at least, is that there aren't that many SGs around in comparison to the Les Paul variants, with correspondingly even fewer numbers of Juniors. There was a sum total of 1 in all of the online classifieds in the country as of yesterday

StruanRobertson

LPManic said:

StruanRobertson said:

I bought one of the 2019 SG Juniors from GAK. It was two piece, possibly three, it was extremely hard to tell. It was a very nice guitar, but there was some poor finishing on the neck, so I sent it back.

I would also say that the varnish was very thick.

Sounded ace though.

Do you have any photos of it? If I buy, I have to buy blind and trying to get as many different looks at the finishes as possible.

Here you go. 

http://imgur.com/gallery/GwSJeMQ

These were taken when I spent a week deciding if I could overlook the flaw. 

If you email GAK, they will select and photograph the guitar for you. They were also the best price at the time and have a 30 day no quibble returns policy.

Service from them was great. They even restrung it with a set of 11's free of charge.

LPManic

@StruanRobertson Thanks so much for sharing the photos. I get paid very soon, so I will see how my willpower is come the weekend. 

I have bought from GAK before as well (Yamaha CSF3M) and had a great experience. 

AK99

Still trying to get my eye in on this...

Custom Shop '63 SG Junior on Reverb - listed as having a one piece body.

https://reverb.com/item/34431868-gibson-custom-shop-1963-sg-junior-reissue-lightning-bar-vos-cherry-red-2019-w-ohsc-case-candy

Pretty damn sure there's a join running right through the jack-plug, which makes it at least a 2 piece, if not 3. Anybody concur ?

ICBM

AK99 said:

Pretty damn sure there's a join running right through the jack-plug, which makes it at least a 2 piece, if not 3. Anybody concur ?

No, I think that might actually be a one-piece. Look at the oblique view with the jack in close-up - no evidence of a join between the jack and the edge of the body.

But as already said, with mahogany you often need to see the endgrain to be sure.

AK99

Yes, I see what you mean. On that shot it almost looks as if there is another join - about 2/3 the width of the jack socket to the right of it. Damned hard to read the grain on those particular slabs of mahogany!

Philly_Q

It would be very unusual for a Custom Shop one not to be a one piece. 

Not because Gibson care deeply about their customers, but they're creatures of habit and one-piece bodies go to the Custom Shop.

(Edit:  I didn't know they were making Custom Shop SG Juniors now... shame there isn't a picture with the scratchplate off, to see how they've done the neck tenon.)

AK99

Philly_Q said:

It would be very unusual for a Custom Shop one not to be a one piece. 

Not because Gibson care deeply about their customers, but they're creatures of habit and one-piece bodies go to the Custom Shop.

(Edit:  I didn't know they were making Custom Shop SG Juniors now... shame there isn't a picture with the scratchplate off, to see how they've done the neck tenon.)

Have never actually seen below the scratch-plate on any Junior. I thought (hoped) the neck-body joint was stronger with there being more body in front of the pickup rout to work with - no ?

skunkwerx

AK99 said:

Philly_Q said:

It would be very unusual for a Custom Shop one not to be a one piece. 

Not because Gibson care deeply about their customers, but they're creatures of habit and one-piece bodies go to the Custom Shop.

(Edit:  I didn't know they were making Custom Shop SG Juniors now... shame there isn't a picture with the scratchplate off, to see how they've done the neck tenon.)

Have never actually seen below the scratch-plate on any Junior. I thought (hoped) the neck-body joint was stronger with there being more body in front of the pickup rout to work with - no ?

I’ve seen some look a bit sloppy: 

I have a 2019/20 Junior Lp and took mine off to see, its actually quite neat on mine, could almost get away with no pickguard but you can see small elements of the join. 

Structurally I would have thought as you did, bit of a longer tenon. 

Philly_Q

These pictures are doublecut LP Juniors rather than SG Juniors, but the SG has a similar long tenon.

The original late-'50s DC Juniors had a long full-width tenon (first two pictures) but the modern Custom Shop historic reissues have a long, but narrower tenon (third picture).  Given how much Gibson go on about how authentic their reissues are, with aniline dyes and hide glue and truss rod sleeves and whatever else, it's surprising they haven't sorted the Juniors out.

I'd like to see how this new CS SG Junior's constructed.  I suspect it'll have the narrower tenon like the LP.

musteatbrain

My 60s one looks like this.
I wouldn’t worry too much about them

https://imgur.com/a/G3iTfyu

it never occurred to me before but this is probably a 1 piece body

AK99

skunkwerx said:

AK99 said:

Philly_Q said:

It would be very unusual for a Custom Shop one not to be a one piece. 

Not because Gibson care deeply about their customers, but they're creatures of habit and one-piece bodies go to the Custom Shop.

(Edit:  I didn't know they were making Custom Shop SG Juniors now... shame there isn't a picture with the scratchplate off, to see how they've done the neck tenon.)

Have never actually seen below the scratch-plate on any Junior. I thought (hoped) the neck-body joint was stronger with there being more body in front of the pickup rout to work with - no ?

I’ve seen some look a bit sloppy: 

I have a 2019/20 Junior Lp and took mine off to see, its actually quite neat on mine, could almost get away with no pickguard but you can see small elements of the join. 

Structurally I would have thought as you did, bit of a longer tenon. 

Nice fretboard

That is a bit of an odd looking join. Is that the tenon you can see - coming right up to the surface ?

edit - sorry, missed the earlier picture - it obviously is 

AK99

musteatbrain said:

My 60s one looks like this.
I wouldn’t worry too much about them

https://imgur.com/a/G3iTfyu

it never occurred to me before but this is probably a 1 piece body

There's quite a difference between that Junior of yours and the twin-humbuckered version in the amount of wood around that neck join if this is anything to go by:





Has to make a fair difference in how rigidly the neck is held, and how much flex there is in it I'd have thought ?

Philly_Q

SG neck joints have always been a bit of a weak spot, especially the early '60s style.  Super strong on the Junior, but route it out for a neck pickup and there's not much neck actually attached to the body.  That's also why there's such a big gap between the end of the neck and the neck pickup.

They changed the heel shape and neck joint a lot over the years.  Hard to find really good pictures to illustrate, but this one's quite interesting:

AK99

Yeah - interesting. Looks like they've been round the houses on that more than once.

Probably a daft question - but is the bigger/deeper style of joint like you get on the Junior inherently better from a resonance/sustain perspective, or are there just so many other variables involved any differences will just get lost in the mix ?

Philly_Q

AK99 said:

Yeah - interesting. Looks like they've been round the houses on that more than once.

Probably a daft question - but is the bigger/deeper style of joint like you get on the Junior inherently better from a resonance/sustain perspective, or are there just so many other variables involved any differences will just get lost in the mix ?

That's a question for those who actually build and repair guitars, not me!  I personally think there's "something" to be said for the long, full-width tenon and the greater contact area between neck and body.  It certainly makes for a strong joint.  PRS use that construction, Feline uses it, I think Patrick Eggle and Nik Huber use it.

On the other hand, once everything is glued into place is the neck joint itself having much effect on sustain or resonance, or is it just a solidly glued lump sitting between neck and body?  Can it be proved to make a difference, or does it just instinctively feel like a good way of doing things?  I don't know.

ICBM

AK99 said:

Probably a daft question - but is the bigger/deeper style of joint like you get on the Junior inherently better from a resonance/sustain perspective, or are there just so many other variables involved any differences will just get lost in the mix ?

Contrary to popular belief, I'm pretty sure it's not inherently better. It is stronger, for certain - but if the amount of contact between the neck and body mattered, then one of these would sound terrible...



A Howe-Orme neck joint. The neck touches the body only at three points - the brass pin at the heel, and the tops of the two domed adjuster wheels under the fingerboard.

The guitar sounds perfectly normal, in fact excellent, and has plenty of resonance and sustain.