Neck inserts vs wood screws

Roland

What do we think? Inserts and machine screws are a nice engineering solution, but wood screws work well. The main thing which attracts me is using an Allen key to tighten, rather than having to press with a screwdriver.

TTony

The inserts/bolts solution is probably more resilient if you’re going to need to keep taking the neck off for any reason.  And it feels like a tighter fit/connection (though that might just be feel rather than reality).

WezV

think about the wood too.  I don't think they are needed on maple, but pretty much essential on mahogany

springhead

Very happy with these in my Tele partscaster:

https://www.montysguitars.com/collections/department-of-component/products/montys-neck-bolt-insert-kit 

But I think you could buy them as inserts for flat pack furniture from somewhere. 

My tele is heel end truss rod adjust so I like the thought that the neck can be removed multiple times without any chewing up of the wood, if that's a thing.  Allen key tightening is nice too.

GuyBoden

Roland said:

What do we think? Inserts and machine screws are a nice engineering solution, but wood screws work well. The main thing which attracts me is using an Allen key to tighten, rather than having to press with a screwdriver.

Torx head wood screws are available:

Coach bolts are strong and you can tighten them with more force, but look wrong.

MattNovak

I've stripped a few allen key heads on furniture before, so any neck bolts would have to be top notch quality for me to consider using on a guitar (as guitars are much more important than furniture, obviously)

Philly_Q

I once spent literally months trying to get hold of some stainless steel inserts and machine screws.  I was reading about them on American guitar forums, so I was trying to get them in the correct imperial sizes, emailing all these places in the USA which sold industrial fasteners, materials for boat repairs... I'm still on some of their mailing lists.

They're easier to get hold of now.

Anyway, I fitted a set on a Tele, got them in a size which means they look exactly like normal Fender neck screws until you loosen them.  The stainless steel polished up nicely with a bit of micromesh.  They're fine, but I'm not convinced they make for a tighter fit or anything.

Now, if I frequently had to take a maple neck on and off I'd probably just put some superglue into the holes to harden the threads in the wood.

Roland

So far I’ve used inserts for body mounting pickups. Non structural, but not something I’m happy using wood screws for.

WezV said:

think about the wood too.  I don't think they are needed on maple, but pretty much essential on mahogany

Thanks. I‘ve been thinking about using them on an Ovangkol neck, and have bought some M5 stainless steel Allen bolts and brass inserts.

Philly_Q

Roland said:

So far I’ve used inserts for body mounting pickups. Non structural, but not something I’m happy using wood screws for.

WezV said:

think about the wood too.  I don't think they are needed on maple, but pretty much essential on mahogany

Thanks. I‘ve been thinking about using them on an Ovangkol neck, and have bought some M5 stainless steel Allen bolts and brass inserts.

When I did my - one and only - (maple) neck, I found the brass inserts were too soft and the threads stripped/collapsed as I tried to install them.  Stainless steel worked better.

But your woodworking skills are probably far greater than mine!  

PeteC

Anyone know where to obtain some STRONG M4 threaded wood inserts ?  - I just tried installing my Tele neck ( Idigbo ) with the typical brass/zinc hex headed ones and they failed - they're too soft and the hex heads started stripping.  

Managed to get them out again - but now left with a drilled neck and no M4 threaded inserts.   

JohnS37

GuyBoden said:

Roland said:

What do we think? Inserts and machine screws are a nice engineering solution, but wood screws work well. The main thing which attracts me is using an Allen key to tighten, rather than having to press with a screwdriver.

Torx head wood screws are available:

Coach bolts are strong and you can tighten them with more force, but look wrong.

The Torx screws look like the best solution to me.  Very sharp, incisive threads, and the non-slip drive sockets will keep the burrs away.

PeteC

already drilled the neck with 6.5mm pi9lot holes for the existing (crap) threaded inserts -

EDIT -  have just ordered a kit with stainless steel threaded inserts to see how that goes. Pilot holes are 7mm so I won't have to do any refilling. 

Philly_Q

PeteC said:

Anyone know where to obtain some STRONG M4 threaded wood inserts ?  - I just tried installing my Tele neck ( Idigbo ) with the typical brass/zinc hex headed ones and they failed - they're too soft and the hex heads started stripping.  

Managed to get them out again - but now left with a drilled neck and no M4 threaded inserts.   

Exactly what happened to me.  It's not quite as straightforward in practice as it looks on paper (or the internet), is it?

PeteC

Indeed @Philly_Q       I'm hope the stainless steel inserts do the trick - I think they should be fine.     just have to wait longer to finish the guitar which is a pain. 

Philly_Q

The stainless ones I got worked OK, they certainly didn't strip or collapse.  Still a couple of nervy moments trying to get them to screw in straight without cracking the wood! 

It made me a bit hesitant about doing the same thing again, although I do have quite a lot of spare machine screws and inserts buried somewhere in the junkyard that is my living room.

PeteC

With the Idigbo neck on my current build (similar hardness to mahogany/limba), I'm thinking of reinforcing the inserts by supergluing them into the neck once I am sure they fit well.  Hopefully this will provide very good holding strength. 
I'm the same with electronic components stuff tbh - I buy stuff regularly , then find that I have it already somewhere in the "stores". 

Philly_Q

Once I'd screwed in the inserts - I think I used a bit of dry soap or wax to help them in - it was too difficult to unscrew them again, but I did run a drop of superglue around the top edges where I'd countersunk them.  Being very careful not to get it into the internal threads!

I suppose idigbo should be a bit easier to work with than maple, if it's similar hardness to mahogany.

prowla

Coincidentally, I'm looking for these things to secure a bridge to a bass, but they'd need smaller gauge screws.

I do have one bass neck with the inserts, a Status Graphite one, and it's a pig if you want to swap it to another body and the holes don't line up.

mrkb

The inserts should be stronger than the bolt/screw as having the insert thread strip makes it very difficult to remove/replace. I thought that an Allen key was used for inserting the insert?!? If it isn’t then use a steel bolt and get as much thread into the insert as possible, also use a bolt on the thread to lock the bolt into the insert.