Possibly looking at rewire of my DIY guitar, maybe some setup, advice also sought please!

thecolourbox

Hi all,

I've a DIY kit SG guitar that my other half bought me as an xmas gift once, and to be honest it has never been great but obviously I'm compelled to keep it. I originally put in EMGs so i didn't have to learn to solder. However I didn't realise I'd still have to solder to attach a switch. So i flogged them and tried to put in some cheap pickups to just have a functioning guitar that I could be seen playing now and again to keep the other half happy. I bought what I think is called a wire loom for the pots and a switch, tried to solder it all (I really do not understand wiring diagrams and seems everything i have is an exception to established rules). It worked for about a week then gave up the ghost. No sound at all. 

Anyway, I've recently been getting into some new music and found myself wishing to learn some more heavier techniques, for which an LP might be appropriate than the Mustang I use for my usual jangly indie stuff, plus I can't tune my Mustang to Drop D or similar as it seems to have problems. I can't really justify buying an LP style so my mind turned to my SG.

I have two Eastwood Airline deluxe pickups (which are humbucker I think), and I found two pots - a b250k one and a b500k one - so thought I must be able to find a wiring layout or video to help me set up a simple wiring for two pickups, switch, and master tone and volume pot. I got very confused looking and couldn't see it, any I did find also seemed to suggest my pickups should have 4 wires, whereas these pickups have only two which makes the diagrams I found useless. If you google these words altogether it's utterly useless as the words don't show up in the right order. So yeah I just gave up.

I thought I would ask on here, what sort of price I should be looking at to get this sorted (and if anybody local to Birmingham here might fancy a go at it), and whether it's worth it or better to find a simpler pickup set up that I could manage myself

What I have so far:
1. 2x Eastwood Airline Deluxe pickups (believe Humbuckers as these were from an Airline Deluxe guitar which did not use the single coil versions)
2. 2x pots, a b250k one and a b500k one
3. A typical 3 position toggle switch, but I'm not sure if I've ruined this by my previous soldering
4. 4x Gibson pot knob cover things

What I'd like
- install pickups and wiring, ideally using the stuff I already have (and just use dummy pots for the two not in use with the Gibson hats if needs be)
- Maybe a general set up on it especially if it enables me to tune to drop D (wez has previously done a bit on it as I think the nut was awful as expected)

If any further detail is required let me know and I'll try to do my best to answer but please be aware I'm a bit stupid (clearly) so your answer will be in noobish

Thank you everybody

Edit: alternatively, if anybody has a working SG which looks very much like this one, I could also be very interested haha

Funkfingers

D'oh! You did not need to solder any part of the Solderless™ EMG harness. The pickup connectors could have pushed into the Buss board. The existing cables from the selector switch could have been fastened to the Buss board using the screw terminals.

Wales is re-opening for tourism. If you are likely to be visiting the South Western bit, bring the kit with you and I'll do the job while you are in the area.

thecolourbox

Thank you kind sir but alas we aren't heading over your way I'm afraid for the foreseeable. Look what happened the last time I came over, cost me an engagement ring!!

There was definitely some soldering required, it might have been to the actual switch itself, I can't remember now but the emgs sounded terrible anyway as they were buzzing a lot due to my shoddy install. Plus by putting them in it, it increased the investment in what is essentially the worst guitar I've ever played, and I could not quite see the return on that. The Airline pickups have the bonus being in my possession already and nobody else would realistically want to buy them

Andyjr1515

I'm just north of Derby - happy to sort it as best I can for nowt if you fancy a trip up the A38 to drop it off with me.  PM me if that helps.

Rocker

If the guitar sounds and plays 'good' unplugged, it is worth getting a tech to sort out the wiring issues.  Don't try to fix problems before they are identified - get it setup, play it and then go looking for the upgrades to make it sound the way you want it to sound.

WezV

if this is the one i looked at for you a few years back,  I seem to remember the neck angle on the kit being well off and we had to shim quite significantly.   Is that still all stable?

thecolourbox

Andyjr1515 said:

I'm just north of Derby - happy to sort it as best I can for nowt if you fancy a trip up the A38 to drop it off with me.  PM me if that helps.

Thank you that's a really kind offer, unfortunately I'm not headed up that way any time soon (more is the pity as had many lovely trips to Derbyshire). Thank you though, very grateful.

WezV said:

if this is the one i looked at for you a few years back,  I seem to remember the neck angle on the kit being well off and we had to shim quite significantly.   Is that still all stable?

Yes that's the fella, the neck is still stable from your efforts yes - without your input on it then the instrument would have gone to the tip to be honest. So for that I am very grateful good sir - hope you're getting on well. The Airline is still going strong albeit I don't play it that often because my spare room is a tip so I tend to leave it in its case...

Rocker said:

If the guitar sounds and plays 'good' unplugged, it is worth getting a tech to sort out the wiring issues.  Don't try to fix problems before they are identified - get it setup, play it and then go looking for the upgrades to make it sound the way you want it to sound.

I see what you mean, but no it doesn't sound good acoustically either. It's really a lost cause if I'm totally honest but I'm not allowed to bin it and I thought this might at least give it some use!

ICBM

I'm not close enough to help physically, but it doesn't actually look like a lost cause to me, unless the neck is in the body at the wrong distance from the bridge or something. The pickups are perfectly good.

This may sound like throwing good money after bad, but the amount involved won't be huge and you could end up with something actually worth using...

Personally I would replace the pots - four proper ones of the correct values will make it sound much better. Ideally you need 500K Log ('A' taper), and looking at the size of the existing ones they need to be Alphas or some others with 8mm bushings not the more expensive 3/8" US-made ones - although I would stick to full-size (23mm) pots not mini-pots if you can. You may need a new switch - that one looks like a cheap box-construction one from the size of the nut and toggle - in which case the Schaller-type 'shallow' version is fine. I would also get a decent jack, given the small cost - a Switchcraft is really the only one worth using. A pair of tone caps is pennies, so if you don't have two decent ones I would replace them as well.

If you do that, string it relatively heavily and tune it to drop D I would be very surprised if it doesn't make a usable doomy racket, no matter how bad you think it is .

thecolourbox

Thanks, the neck and scale is fine (Wez sorted the neck angle out before), though it's not the nicest instrument to play but that could just be preference and body shape I suppose. I have over the last year found that the 24" scale child size Mustang is the most comfortable for me, the SG seems rather elongated even compared to an LP style. In fact if I could swap it for a scruffy woodstained LP without the other half noticing  certainly would haha.

Re parts required, I've no idea what those pots I mentioned were for, they certainly weren't off the SG I just thought they might prove useful. This is what's in there currently, looks a right mess as the wire lengths on the prewired thing were huge. I think it was only about £30 off Amazon so not unexpectedly crap:


Re the other parts, I don't remember where the switch came from to be honest but yes it'll be a cheap crappy thing and probably ruined by my attempts to solder it anyway. Will bear in mind the recommendations (and price it up), thank you

Re the pickups, I don't think I'd be able to flog them in order to get something more suitable so they'll do (will just dump the existing ones in there as they are awful things), but hoping the wires are long enough. Also are 2 wire pickups a problem for this? If so I'd just sack them off and get whatever the cheapest functioning humbuckers I can find.

ICBM

2-wire pickups are fine, that's what Gibson used . As long as the wires will reach the appropriate volume pots they're good.

thecolourbox

ICBM said:

2-wire pickups are fine, that's what Gibson used . As long as the wires will reach the appropriate volume pots they're good.

It's just that every diagram I could find had 4 wire pickups and no explanation for what to do with two wires. 

In terms of budget, would fitting the pickups, switch pots and jack be about an hour's work for somebody who knows what they are doing? Or more?

I'm definitely not attempting this

ICBM

thecolourbox said:

In terms of budget, would fitting the pickups, switch pots and jack be about an hour's work for somebody who knows what they are doing?

Yes, anyone who knows what they're doing should be able to do that in under an hour... although that will likely be the minimum charge time. On a good day with no unexpected issues I would say half that.

Funkfingers

thecolourbox said:

the Mustang I use for my usual jangly indie stuff

Last time I saw it, your Squier VM Mustang had a red/blue Lace Sensor Dually in the bridge/Treble position. Through a suitably high gain pre-amp or drive pedal, the red sensor is more than capable of hard Rock filth.

The Mustang’s tuning issue is either the dogbreath stock Kluson-alike machineheads, the lack of truss rod adjustment for, shall we say, eleven months or the age of the strings. 

If you use tens or elevens for EADGBE, drop tunings will require twelves or bigger.

thecolourbox

Funkfingers said:

thecolourbox said:

the Mustang I use for my usual jangly indie stuff

Last time I saw it, your Squier VM Mustang had a red/blue Lace Sensor Dually in the bridge/Treble position. Through a suitably high gain pre-amp or drive pedal, the red sensor is more than capable of hard Rock filth.

The Mustang’s tuning issue is either the dogbreath stock Kluson-alike machineheads, the lack of truss rod adjustment for, shall we say, eleven months or the age of the strings. 

If you use tens or elevens for EADGBE, drop tunings will require twelves or bigger.

Interesting thank you. I do have heavier guage strings than those originally on it but I don't have confidence to mess with a truss rod - it absolutely is great in normal tuning so I assumed the slight out of tune on the drop D string to be because of the short scale and needing perhaps thicker strings. I do like three Mustang the way it is as it plays wonderfully for me and fits me perfectly. It covers the stuff I play 90% of the time with no issues. I've been learning to sing a lot of Cornell stuff lately so hearing some lovely guitar sounds from the Soundgarden period particularly that are the opposite to my normal sounds, so thought the SG might be better to get set up for that 10% of stuff the Mustang isn't quite so ideal for

thecolourbox

ICBM said:

thecolourbox said:

In terms of budget, would fitting the pickups, switch pots and jack be about an hour's work for somebody who knows what they are doing?

Yes, anyone who knows what they're doing should be able to do that in under an hour... although that will likely be the minimum charge time. On a good day with no unexpected issues I would say half that.

Brill thanks, I'm just trying to cost it up with a general idea so I can decide if the fair price for doing this is worth it really. 

Funkfingers

What are the pickups illustrated in the photographs posted on July 6th and 7th, respectively? Any markings on their undersides? Even DC resistance meter readings would help.

thecolourbox

Funkfingers said:

What are the pickups illustrated in the photographs posted on July 6th and 7th, respectively? Any markings on their undersides? Even DC resistance meter readings would help.

The pickups on the full length image on the 6th, I've no idea - they have no name on them, my ebay purchase history doesn't go back far enough to tell me what was on the listing but I recall them costing about £20 for the two of them. 

The close up photo on the 7th, the crap £20 pickups are still attached but hanging out of view, the ones I'd placed in the relevant positions are Eastwood Airline Deluxe pickups, I'd got it in my head they were humbuckers but now looking at their website, their "dlx" Jetson style guitars have single coils and the "dlx" Map style guitar uses two "Alnico Hot-10 Humbuckers", so god only knows what these are as there does not seem to be any visual difference between the two. They sell SC and HB models of the Airline style pickups here and here. I'd got it in my head that the Jetson style and the Map style used the SC and HB versions respectively but apparently not! So as these are probably SC, I suppose they aren't even relevant to this folly are they! Gahhh

Funkfingers

Down tuning filth is generally associated with humbuckers.

If your Eastwood pickups are actually single coils under HB metal covers, perhaps, you could swap them for a pair of dual-coil Eastwood pickups?

TTony

Given the Wez has fettled the neck join for you, it's got to be a reasonably decent guitar to play.

Iron Gear sell decent pickups, cheap.  Take a look at their website, and you'll probably find a set for ~£60.  Read the descriptions, listen to the sound clips, have fun.

Axetec (the retail arm of Iron Gear) also sell all the pots & switches that you need.  It's not top-spec quality, but it's more than good enough. 

As long as you're halfway competent with a soldering iron (know which end gets hot), then you'll be able to put it together just fine.  It's really not hard, and we'll sort the wiring diagram for you so you know what to solder to what.

You'll then have;
a) got the guitar working, sounding good, and playing nicely and you'll smile when playing it*
b) spent the money on some reasonable quality parts rather than paying a tech to install some possibly iffy bits
c) learn some skills that you'll re-use time and time again whenever you get the urge to mod another guitar





* If your  "other half" sees how much you enjoy playing the gift she bought you, who knows what other guitar-related items she might be encouraged to gift you in future 

TTony

^^^ That's the simple, simple option.

If you fancy getting fancy, then you can  add coil taps/splits. 

All you have to do, is use those wires coming out of the pickups that are labelled "Green & White" and some push/pull pots.

This looks a lot more complicated, but it's actually only the 4 green/white wires out of the pickups, and a bit more wiring on the push/pull pots, and it gives you a lot more sounds out of the guitar


(though I'd only suggest this is you're happy with the soldering iron!)

WezV

TTony said:

Given the Wez has fettled the neck join for you, it's got to be a reasonably decent guitar to play.

It was only a quick adjust whilst working on other stuff... Not a full setup

If I remember right, it took a much bigger shim than is ideal, which is why I wondered if it was stable. Ideally I would suggest a full pocket shim that both raises the neck and adds some angle.