Is Fender Custom Shop almost entirely about aesthetics ?

monquixote

RaymondLin said:

I want to do a blind test of them, some masking tape over the back of the headstock covering it and then just pick the best one.  

Andertons did it with a mix of CS, Mex and Jap and picked one of the CS as the cheapest feeling.

LPManic

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

I want to do a blind test of them, some masking tape over the back of the headstock covering it and then just pick the best one.  

Andertons did it with a mix of CS, Mex and Jap and picked one of the CS as the cheapest feeling.

Andertons videos are fixed to promote the mid range guitars that sell to their main demographic.

Fifty9

I have the same mental blocker when it comes to paying a lot for a fender. I’d say if you really want too end but can’t justify the price, find the specs you want then buy it from Japan...
Bought a lovely coda limited edition 63 strat from here. My dream strat and the whality was every bit as superb as I’d hoped yet, after the initial high of buying it, once owned for a while it just didn’t feel right playing a strat for over 2k. Same with my 52 CS tele. I sold it and replaced it with a navigator with v similar specs and there is nothing between them in terms of quality or finish. Both superbly high end guitars. You can get wonderfully spec’d and made fender derivatives for the 1k mark.

monquixote

LPManic said:

monquixote said:

RaymondLin said:

I want to do a blind test of them, some masking tape over the back of the headstock covering it and then just pick the best one.  

Andertons did it with a mix of CS, Mex and Jap and picked one of the CS as the cheapest feeling.

Andertons videos are fixed to promote the mid range guitars that sell to their main demographic.

If you watch the video in question it really doesn't come across like that and they had another CS in the same roundup that they did like.

They've also had the most expensive thing come out on top in several of those videos so there is no obvious bias that you can identify.

GoldenEraGuitars

TINMAN82 said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

chris78 said:

The finish isn’t different. AO is acrylic sealer, “nitro” top coat. NOS CS is acrylic sealer, “nitro” top coat

Fixed that for you

Names might be the same but formulas are definitely different. Tactile feel and durability differ. Anyone who owned/owns a thin coat Pure Vintage will attest to that. 

Anyone who has stripped both a fender Mexican tele and a CS NOS tele will know the sealer is the same. There may be some differences across a few models. But based on the name “Pure Vintage” you can bet your ass the main difference is marketing BS.

TINMAN82

GoldenEraGuitars said:

TINMAN82 said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

chris78 said:

The finish isn’t different. AO is acrylic sealer, “nitro” top coat. NOS CS is acrylic sealer, “nitro” top coat

Fixed that for you

Names might be the same but formulas are definitely different. Tactile feel and durability differ. Anyone who owned/owns a thin coat Pure Vintage will attest to that. 

Anyone who has stripped both a fender Mexican tele and a CS NOS tele will know the sealer is the same. There may be some differences across a few models. But based on the name “Pure Vintage” you can bet your ass the main difference is marketing BS.

Im not fussed about the sealer to be honest. The top coat contributes to the tactile feel and durability I mentioned (and what I’ve noticed is different between ranges). Any finisher worth their salt would accept that’s a factor which contributes to instrument quality and the playing experience. You presumably do as you charge around £1600 for a premium nitro partscaster. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re just fishing though.

Also, I made no mention of Mexican finishes at all.

TINMAN82

p.s. this (problems with the AV line "nitro" finish) isn't a novel topic on this or other forums.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/109451/fender-american-vintage-lacquer

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/121366/fender-american-vintage-reissues

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/fender-americain-vintage-guitars-issues-with-paint-nitro-chipping.1328557/

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/new-american-vintage-series-finish-problems.419056/

And many more on google. So its not just me I'm afraid.

GoldenEraGuitars

Okay  

tone1

I’ve only had one Custom Shop Strat which is my Cunetto 96-97 Relic version....Now you all know how much I loved my Angry Angus Strat but after playing the Custom Shop I just knew the Angry Angus’ days were numbered....it may be only 5-10% difference but it was like night and day. Then I heard a fellow forumite play my Custom Shop Strat and i realised that I’d never be able to afford such a great Strat..(he was going to buy it, but I couldn’t part with it)”I think it’s the wood they chose and the feel is sublime....

https://i.imgur.com/tyJizNr.jpg

monquixote

TINMAN82 said:

p.s. this (problems with the AV line "nitro" finish) isn't a novel topic on this or other forums.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/109451/fender-american-vintage-lacquer

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/121366/fender-american-vintage-reissues

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/fender-americain-vintage-guitars-issues-with-paint-nitro-chipping.1328557/

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/new-american-vintage-series-finish-problems.419056/

And many more on google. So its not just me I'm afraid.

That's different though.

The AO is sealer over nitro, the AV is some kind of weird super thin nitro "flash coat" that flakes off.

That's what put me off buying an AV.

Benm39

tone1 said:

I’ve only had one Custom Shop Strat which is my Cunetto 96-97 Relic version....Now you all know how much I loved my Angry Angus Strat but after playing the Custom Shop I just knew the Angry Angus’ days were numbered....it may be only 5-10% difference but it was like night and day. Then I heard a fellow forumite play my Custom Shop Strat and i realised that I’d never be able to afford such a great Strat..(he was going to buy it, but I couldn’t part with it)”I think it’s the wood they chose and the feel is sublime....

https://i.imgur.com/tyJizNr.jpg

Don't worry Tone, Angus has a good home and isn't angry hehe

TINMAN82

monquixote said:

TINMAN82 said:

p.s. this (problems with the AV line "nitro" finish) isn't a novel topic on this or other forums.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/109451/fender-american-vintage-lacquer

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/121366/fender-american-vintage-reissues

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/fender-americain-vintage-guitars-issues-with-paint-nitro-chipping.1328557/

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/new-american-vintage-series-finish-problems.419056/

And many more on google. So its not just me I'm afraid.

That's different though.

The AO is sealer over nitro, the AV is some kind of weird super thin nitro "flash coat" that flakes off.

That's what put me off buying an AV.

Having never owned an AO I can’t comment on whether the finish issues have been carried over. “Sealer over nitro” is a new one for me though, not sure what that means.

People can make up their own minds on whether the widely reported issues with the AV finish were an indicator of cost cutting production techniques, insignificant, desirable, historically accurate etc. Within the context of the thread premise though, I’d suggest more than just aesthetic.

monquixote

TINMAN82 said:

monquixote said:

TINMAN82 said:

p.s. this (problems with the AV line "nitro" finish) isn't a novel topic on this or other forums.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/109451/fender-american-vintage-lacquer

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/121366/fender-american-vintage-reissues

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/fender-americain-vintage-guitars-issues-with-paint-nitro-chipping.1328557/

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/new-american-vintage-series-finish-problems.419056/

And many more on google. So its not just me I'm afraid.

That's different though.

The AO is sealer over nitro, the AV is some kind of weird super thin nitro "flash coat" that flakes off.

That's what put me off buying an AV.

Having never owned an AO I can’t comment on whether the finish issues have been carried over. “Sealer over nitro” is a new one for me though, not sure what that means.

People can make up their own minds on whether the widely reported issues with the AV finish were an indicator of cost cutting production techniques, insignificant, desirable, historically accurate etc. Within the context of the thread premise though, I’d suggest more than just aesthetic.

Sealer under nitro rather.

The AOs are quite similar to the AV but the main difference was addressing the flakey finish. 

terada

RaymondLin said:

p90fool said:

Rather than speculating as to what the differences are and what improvements you might get when paying Custom Shop prices, why don't you just decide what specifications you want and see if a cheaper Fender would work for you?

Say you wanted a reasonably light alder body, a six point trem, vintage-voiced pickups and a rosewood board with a 9.5 radius for example. 

You can buy a US-made Fender anywhere with those specs, without paying an extra two grand for a back story about who built it under so-and-so's supervision.

Custom Shop Fenders do not correct faults made in the build or parts quality on American Original guitars. They do not use "better" components, it's the same stuff but with added romance and/or finish ageing. 

Don't fall victim to the "it costs more so it must be better" line. Better than what? What's wrong with, or don't you like about a non Custom Shop guitar?

Custom Shops are supposed to be there so you can specify a guitar you can't get elsewhere, not so you can just buy a perfectly normal Strat except lovingly assembly by your new friends Abigail and Todd, who'll put a nice letter in the case. 

This man speaks sense.

At least give the cheaper stuff a chance if they tick all your boxes spec wise.  It's a bolt on guitar, it's idea when it was created was to make an affordable guitar for the masses.  The idea of the Strat isn't to make a guitar out of most people's reach.

Pick the spec that you want and see if you can get it outside the Custom Shop.  I did, I found it in the Mexican line, albeit at the time it had to be discontinued so I bought used, so double win.

I’ve wow’d this so many times. Thanks for posting again and have another wow! Beautiful. 

tone1

Benm39

tone1 said:

I’ve only had one Custom Shop Strat which is my Cunetto 96-97 Relic version....Now you all know how much I loved my Angry Angus Strat but after playing the Custom Shop I just knew the Angry Angus’ days were numbered....it may be only 5-10% difference but it was like night and day. Then I heard a fellow forumite play my Custom Shop Strat and i realised that I’d never be able to afford such a great Strat..(he was going to buy it, but I couldn’t part with it)”I think it’s the wood they chose and the feel is sublime....

https://i.imgur.com/tyJizNr.jpg

Don't worry Tone, Angus has a good home and isn't angry hehe

LOL....Can I just renew my Dibs on Angus please?   

Hattigol

Can I ask, has anyone ever played a Custom Shop Fender that they didn't think was great?

Interested to hear. Played my fair share and every single one has been fabulous...

Benm39

tone1 said:

Benm39

tone1 said:

I’ve only had one Custom Shop Strat which is my Cunetto 96-97 Relic version....Now you all know how much I loved my Angry Angus Strat but after playing the Custom Shop I just knew the Angry Angus’ days were numbered....it may be only 5-10% difference but it was like night and day. Then I heard a fellow forumite play my Custom Shop Strat and i realised that I’d never be able to afford such a great Strat..(he was going to buy it, but I couldn’t part with it)”I think it’s the wood they chose and the feel is sublime....

https://i.imgur.com/tyJizNr.jpg

Don't worry Tone, Angus has a good home and isn't angry hehe

LOL....Can I just renew my Dibs on Angus please?   

Hehe of course

guitars4you

Hattigol said:

Can I ask, has anyone ever played a Custom Shop Fender that they didn't think was great?

Interested to hear. Played my fair share and every single one has been fabulous...

In recent years I'd say, few if any  - Maybe some early examples, especially when mainly 7.25" radius and some were only equivalent to what we now call AVRi or similar 

A few years ago I could hand pick a lot of my stock - The rep would arrive with around 15-20 guitars for me to choose from and rarely would I come across a lifeless example - Most stock is now custom spec'd and ordered, and I can only recall one guitar in the last 5 years that I've returned as it was just a poor example 

The main difference you find is 'which you prefer' when you try 5/10/15 side by side and on that basis it boils down to preference, not better 

I would add, that to be fair to Fender, the whole replica market, from Jap/Mex and USA, is generally better  and more consistent now than say 10-20 or even 30 years ago - Interesting that in the early 80's we raved about the JV models, as they were new and fresh, with nothing else to compare to from the past - Today many are just okay and nothing special when compared to recent Mex models 

adam1990

Hattigol said:

Can I ask, has anyone ever played a Custom Shop Fender that they didn't think was great?

Interested to hear. Played my fair share and every single one has been fabulous...

Ive played a few in shops that have felt a bit flat and compared to most that seam ring like a bell and feel like old faithful. 

Like most guitars some will be better than others. Only thing that I feel that most is the thought of "Do I think this guitar is worth this much?" And so far I haven't brought one yet .... 

If I'm going to splash out on a CS guitar it's gotta blow me away and make me wan't to spend that kinda money. 

carlos

guitars4you said:

But isn’t it the case that the vast majority of the price difference between Custom Shop and their top-end mass produced models is entirely down to nitro finishing, relicing and mimicry of original models ?

I'd be upset on a blind fold test if I could not tell the difference between a good CS model and an equivalent Mex/Jap etc model - Granted the difference might be more subtle at times - Granted feel + tonal character is a matter of taste 

Professional violinists couldn't tell the difference between a Stradivarius and a contemporary high end violin even when they played them.