Jazzmaster - finally got round to reversing the screws on the tremolo plate (then changed my mind)

Philtre

Found some shallower domed screws that might do it:

https://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/UNC-Bolts-Screws/Phillips-Truss-Head-Machine-Scr-UNC-8-32x1-4-inch-A2-Stainless.html

ICBM

francer said:

What puzzles me is that looking at this pic, there's obviously enough clearance for the original screws anyway.

Because you've got the bridge high enough...

Philtre

After all these screw searches I'm coming round to @ICBM 's idea to shim the neck instead to get a better angle to raise the bridge. I've never shimmed a neck before, though. Do I need one of those expensive StewMac 0.5° jobbies?

ICBM

Philtre said:

After all these screw searches I'm coming round to @ICBM 's idea to shim the neck instead to get a better angle to raise the bridge. I've never shimmed a neck before, though. Do I need one of those expensive StewMac 0.5° jobbies?

No .

A piece of cornflake packet is fine. If you need it thicker, two pieces of cornflake packet...

The ideal size is just big enough that it will sit tightly up against the end of the pocket and the two screws will pass through it. Don't worry about air gaps ruining the contact, bending the end of the neck or any of the other nonsense you'll often read about.

Philtre

ICBM said:

Philtre said:

After all these screw searches I'm coming round to @ICBM 's idea to shim the neck instead to get a better angle to raise the bridge. I've never shimmed a neck before, though. Do I need one of those expensive StewMac 0.5° jobbies?

No .

A piece of cornflake packet is fine. If you need it thicker, two pieces of cornflake packet...

The ideal size is just big enough that it will sit tightly up against the end of the pocket and the two screws will pass through it. Don't worry about air gaps ruining the contact, bending the end of the neck or any of the other nonsense you'll often read about.

Cheers. So how much of the neck pocket should it cover?

ICBM

Philtre said:

So how much of the neck pocket should it cover?

Just enough that the two inner end screws pass through it.

Philtre

ICBM said:

Philtre said:

So how much of the neck pocket should it cover?

Just enough that the two inner end screws pass through it.

Thanks. As always, I appreciate your advice. :-)

francer

ICBM said:

francer said:

What puzzles me is that looking at this pic, there's obviously enough clearance for the original screws anyway.

Because you've got the bridge high enough...

You are probably right, that’s my partscaster, I’ve been chopping and changing it for a while now, started with WRHBs which I never bonded with now with Mojos (lovely), various pickguards and bridges, most recently switched back to stock bridge from Mastery. I also shimmed it at some point, can’t remember when I did that, might have been after I switched the screws and I’ve just not put the old ones back.

During this time I’ve had many a high E string unravel on me but it almost always happens when tuning up after changing something, makes me wonder whether the act of releasing and tensioning the strings is the issue rather than contact with the screws during normal playing. My high E is always the last one I release and the last one I tune back up, maybe when it’s the only string left the tremolo tension is enough to drag the string over the screw, fatally wounding it ready to fail when tuned back up.

I’ve also noticed it’s more common in my experience for the low E to sit on the screw head, and it doesn’t harm it but it does buzz when plucked behind the bridge.

Anyhow, I’m finally completely happy with this guitar now so I’m letting sleeping dogs lie as far as messing with screws goes.

meltedbuzzbox

francer said:

ICBM said:

francer said:

What puzzles me is that looking at this pic, there's obviously enough clearance for the original screws anyway.

Because you've got the bridge high enough...

You are probably right, that’s my partscaster, I’ve been chopping and changing it for a while now, started with WRHBs which I never bonded with now with Mojos (lovely), various pickguards and bridges, most recently switched back to stock bridge from Mastery. I also shimmed it at some point, can’t remember when I did that, might have been after I switched the screws and I’ve just not put the old ones back.

During this time I’ve had many a high E string unravel on me but it almost always happens when tuning up after changing something, makes me wonder whether the act of releasing and tensioning the strings is the issue rather than contact with the screws during normal playing. My high E is always the last one I release and the last one I tune back up, maybe when it’s the only string left the tremolo tension is enough to drag the string over the screw, fatally wounding it ready to fail when tuned back up.

I’ve also noticed it’s more common in my experience for the low E to sit on the screw head, and it doesn’t harm it but it does buzz when plucked behind the bridge.

Anyhow, I’m finally completely happy with this guitar now so I’m letting sleeping dogs lie as far as messing with screws goes.

You know mastery advise to remove any shims and run the bridge as low as you possibly can?

francer

meltedbuzzbox said:

You know mastery advise to remove any shims and run the bridge as low as you possibly can?

That does ring a bell now you say it, as I mentioned I’ve done a lot of chopping and changing of that guitar, I own a couple of staytrems and I think one of them has also had a spell on it at some point. I think I put the shim in when I first put the guitar together with whatever bridge I chose at the time and have yet to find a compelling reason to remove it.

Interestingly I can’t use the Mastery on my AV65 Jag at all, thanks to the angled neck pocket (even with no shim) the Mastery won’t go tall enough to lift the strings off the fret board, I’ve left the stock bridge on there and it looks like it’s on stilts, I might shim it the other way to try and tone it down, it looks weird, everything is so high and the pickups are hanging in by a thread.

But tbh, I don’t really like the Mastery for some reason, I can’t say it’s the tone or the feel or what, I just don’t quite gel with it. It’s been on all my offsets at some point but never lasted, I might invest another staytrem for the partscaster at some point, or maybe just stop piddling about with it and play the damn thing

meltedbuzzbox

francer said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

You know mastery advise to remove any shims and run the bridge as low as you possibly can?

That does ring a bell now you say it, as I mentioned I’ve done a lot of chopping and changing of that guitar, I own a couple of staytrems and I think one of them has also had a spell on it at some point. I think I put the shim in when I first put the guitar together with whatever bridge I chose at the time and have yet to find a compelling reason to remove it.

Interestingly I can’t use the Mastery on my AV65 Jag at all, thanks to the angled neck pocket (even with no shim) the Mastery won’t go tall enough to lift the strings off the fret board, I’ve left the stock bridge on there and it looks like it’s on stilts, I might shim it the other way to try and tone it down, it looks weird, everything is so high and the pickups are hanging in by a thread.

But tbh, I don’t really like the Mastery for some reason, I can’t say it’s the tone or the feel or what, I just don’t quite gel with it. It’s been on all my offsets at some point but never lasted, I might invest another staytrem for the partscaster at some point, or maybe just stop piddling about with it and play the damn thing

Funnily enough I have only ever liked the mastery bridge on one jaguar I have owned (current one).
All my other previous ones (6) have played better on staytrem. 
Always preferred the mastery on my JMs though

thermionic

ICBM said:

Philtre said:

After all these screw searches I'm coming round to @ICBM 's idea to shim the neck instead to get a better angle to raise the bridge. I've never shimmed a neck before, though. Do I need one of those expensive StewMac 0.5° jobbies?

No .

A piece of cornflake packet is fine. 

I find Frosties packets are better. In fact, they’re GRRREEEAAATTT!

ICBM

thermionic said:

I find Frosties packets are better. In fact, they’re GRRREEEAAATTT!

Cornflakes are the authentic American Original.

thermionic

Fun fact of the day - the Kellog’s logo was suggested to Mr Kellog by renowned Welsh harpist Nansi Richards because it sounds like “ceiliog”, the Welsh for cockerel.

Philtre

Does anyone know where I can get a genuine 1965 cornflakes box (preferably empty)?

stickyfiddle

I think I have a gluten free cornflakes shim in my JM. 

Philtre

I put a shim in the Jazzmaster.

I used a business card cut to just fit the neck pocket and the two inner screw holes. At first I thought no way is this going to make much difference so I put two in to make it thicker. I was wrong. The strings were touching the neck, no action at all! So took one out and put it all back together, you don't need much thickness. Then I raised the bridge to compensate. The high E string now clears the screw, but the low E is just a smidge away from the top of the screw.

I'll see how it all beds in. At this stage not sure if this is an improvement or not.

One downside is that bending the high E string above the 12th fret frets out sooner than before I guess because of the increased neck angle.

meltedbuzzbox

Philtre said:

I put a shim in the Jazzmaster.

I used a business card cut to just fit the neck pocket and the two inner screw holes. At first I thought no way is this going to make much difference so I put two in to make it thicker. I was wrong. The strings were touching the neck, no action at all! So took one out and put it all back together, you don't need much thickness. Then I raised the bridge to compensate. The high E string now clears the screw, but the low E is just a smidge away from the top of the screw.

I'll see how it all beds in. At this stage not sure if this is an improvement or not.

One downside is that bending the high E string above the 12th fret frets out sooner than before I guess because of the increased neck angle.

Raise the bridge a bit?

Philtre

meltedbuzzbox said:

Raise the bridge a bit?

Not really, the whole point of this is to keep a relatively low action and clear the screws. But experiments are still ongoing.

stickyfiddle

Philtre said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

Raise the bridge a bit?

Not really, the whole point of this is to keep a relatively low action and clear the screws. But experiments are still ongoing.

Yes, but that's the point of the shim. The extra neck angle means you can have the bridge set higher for the same action (i.e string-to-fret distance).