Would you pay £850 for a Sigma acoustic

ronnyb

Martin haven't had anything to do with Sigma since 2007. The brand is owned by a German company.

deejay.

ronnyb said:

Martin haven't had anything to do with Sigma since 2007. The brand is owned by a German company.

Yes, I'd read that somewhere...

Teacherphil

Ive never played either but on the YouTube clips I've seen the G45 is pretty good. That Gibson will hold its value.

benjyt123

Ive had 2 sigmas. One, that I still have, is great. Small bodied 00-15 I believe (loaned to a friend atm so cant check). The other being a 12 string, which I absolutely despised. Went back out of the door as soon as it came in.
The first guitar was sub 150 notes. 
Long story short, I personally wouldn't drop 850 quid on a sigma, there's better options out there for that budget, imo.

DavidR

Again this US vs. 'foreign' thing in parts of this thread. It's infuriating. Really great guitars are made all around the world these days. It's fine for Americans to have that 'US is best 'attitude - it's loyal and admirable. But the rest of us don't have to buy into the advertising and can make our own choices.

And, by the way, China has been making stringed instruments for at least 5,000 years. Why are we surprised they're brilliant at it?      This is a Guqin - 
https://dribbble.com/shots/11209271-Young-Woman-Playing-The-Guqin
Looks a bit like a guitar doesn't it. And here's a statuette of a girl playing one from the Han Dynasty (221-206 BC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Girl_playing_a_Guqin._Mingqi._Eastern_Han_Dynasty._Toulon_Asian_Art_Museum.jpg

Probably an Eastman.    

TheMarlin

I’ve had 2 Sigma acoustics.  Nice to play, but a cheap Yamaha FG outclassed them both in every way.  It’s a budget brand of a premium maker, and sounds like a budget guitar.  

I wouldn’t pay more than £50 for one (though in truth, wouldn’t ever consider buying another). 

maw4neu

Short Answer : Not in a million years . . . 

Tannin

DavidR said:

Again this US vs. 'foreign' thing in parts of this thread. It's infuriating. Really great guitars are made all around the world these days. It's fine for Americans to have that 'US is best 'attitude - it's loyal and admirable. But the rest of us don't have to buy into the advertising and can make our own choices.

Well, it is a known fact that there are only two countries in the world - US and Foreign. 

The ones that makes me laugh are those who claim that US guitars aren't overpriced, they only cost more than "foreign" ones because of the high cost of labour in the USA. In fact, of course, the US pays lower wages than a lot of "foreigns" do - Japan, Germany, Australia, and South Korea all have higher wages than the US, and I haven't checked but it's a fair bet that most of the  the rest of Western Europe does too.

On the other hand, I am reluctant to buy any guitar made in China or Indonesia. It's not that I worry about quality so much (that Sigma I looked at in the other thread, bling aside, was a fine instrument I'd be happy to own), or even human rights and worker exploitation (I feel concern for these things, but can never work out whether buying or refusing to buy does more harm or good), it is all about environmental practices. How do I know that the timber was harvested legally and sustainably? Even if the company claims that it's doing all these things right, how can I trust or verify that? I feel much more confident  dealing with local companies which I know have good track records. 

rlw

Cranky said:

Strangefan said:

Cranky said:

Andy79 said:

Cranky said:

Gibson necks are lovely.  And I'd pay maybe half that or a little more for a Sigma, as that's more than a foreign-made guitar ought to cost.

That’s a ridiculous thing to say  

Which, the Gibson or the Sigma part?

Sigmas are made in China.  If a manufacturer outsources to save labor costs, I'm gonna make sure some of those savings are passed on to me.  There's no way a guitar made in China should cost £850, particular given that the value will plummet as soon as it becomes a used instrument. 

For a couple hundred pounds more, you could have a real solid-body Martin like a D15 or a studio Gibson, which I would absolutely buy over a Sigma at those respective prices. 

Sorry but that thinking is outdated by about 10 years, Chinese guitars are outstanding these days and cost a premium, any any modern day metal player, none of them play usa it's all far east,
You need to play: an eastman
Strandberg, d'angelico, schecter, modern day bc rich the list goes on.

if you think all US guitars are caressed and made passionately by a caring considerate workforce in America you're wrong, I'd rather have a far Eastern guitar made in a decent factory than American any day.

You and @Andy79 miss my point.  I cast no judgement on an instrument merely for being made in China.  All but three of my guitars were made in either Mexico, Indonesia or China and I love them all.  I have a lovely D'Angelico acoustic from China (which I bought because the 50% discount made the price reasonable), and I had a made-in-Korea D'Angelico Deluxe SS for a couple of days that was barely worth the 75% discount that I got on it. 

My point is basically about the labor overhead.  If you pay £850 for a Sigma, you're letting Martin/Sigma pull one over on you, you're selling out, you're letting the labor-outsourcers get away with metaphorical murder.  And you're paying full price for a lesser guitar that you're gonna lose a bunch of money on, rather than spending a little more on a better guitar that will hold value much longer.

Surely the question to ask is what that same guitar would cost if it was made in America.  If it would cost the same, you have a point, but it wouldn't cost the same would it.

rlw

idiotwindow said:

Cranky said:

If you pay £850 for a Sigma, you're letting Martin/Sigma pull one over on you, you're selling out

I don't think Martin have any connection with Sigma nowadays and haven't done for years. They share a UK distributor but there is no direct relationship.

Getting back to the original question, I'd personally get the guitar with the more comfortable neck. I also prefer the idea of a spartan looking basic guitar built down to a cost in a USA factory than a fancy looking Chinese made copy aiming to look like something much more expensive. The latter, no matter how decent it might sound, has the whiff of a Chibson (or, more accurately, a Chartin) about it. No guitar costing under a grand should have abalone inlays and binding – it looks a bit ridiculous and, perversely, makes the guitar look cheap.

And the answer to that comment is it has abalone inlays and binding which are normally expensive because it is made in a low labour cost country and cost saved elsewhere has been put into making it look nice.

rlw

And to all the people here slagging off far eastern producers and saying the products are too expensive, just take a look at that mobile phone in your pocket.............a classic case of being ripped off if ever there was one but no-one seems to care.

Jalapeno

benjyt123 said:

Long story short, I personally wouldn't drop 850 quid on a sigma, there's better options out there for that budget, imo.

This.

I had one in the Martin era and the neck warped (yes you read that right, not bowed, warped !)

Andy79

Jalapeno said:

benjyt123 said:

Long story short, I personally wouldn't drop 850 quid on a sigma, there's better options out there for that budget, imo.

This.

I had one in the Martin era and the neck warped (yes you read that right, not bowed, warped !)

Oh come on, that’s hardly a fair comparison. Martin era? 1970s?!

earwighoney

Jalapeno said:

benjyt123 said:

Long story short, I personally wouldn't drop 850 quid on a sigma, there's better options out there for that budget, imo.

This.

I had one in the Martin era and the neck warped (yes you read that right, not bowed, warped !)

Totally different factories and countries.

The name is the same but everything else is different.

***

I own an all solid Recording King 0 sized 12 fret guitar, which I bought on sale at Thomann, the full price would have been £350 I think, and I think my guitar is good guitar for that kind of money.  My RK is a bit of an odd guitar in some ways, where there are some excellent things about it; the nut is really well cut, the neck profile is superb, but some of the finishing seems rushed as is the bracework which doesn't look very tidy in places.

From what I have gathered, I think the Recording Kings are built in the same factory as the new Sigmas.

Sigma have a few very interesting custom guitars, that are on the pricier sound of things, including long scale 12 fret 00-18's, 000-18's, a OM-28V and more (all with Adirondack spruce soundboards).

The latter in particular is quite an interesting guitar, I don't know any other true OM-28V currently made with a V neck and Adirondack soundboard sold around the £1k mark.

This is another interesting model, a 14 Fret 00, even though it has laminate back and sides, 14 fret spruce/RW guitars are incredibly thin on the ground.

I've blind bought acoustic guitars before but having held a number of acoustic guitars from the Sigma/RK factory in my hands before I'd be reluctant to buy one without having a look at it before so, especially considering there is an all solid RK with Adirondack/Rosewood for over £600, which is the most I'd pay for such a guitar, as I think any more and it's going into Furch territory which'd be my preferred choice.