Marshall DSL and boosts/drives

ICBM

bananaman said:

That's worth clarifying. When I say use an 808 (or an SD1), I don't mean use the overdrive from the pedal - it's rubbish. I assume this is common knowledge, but just on the small chance that it isn't, do the following: set the drive to zero, level to maximum, tone to taste (start at half) into your already cooking Marshall and enjoy tonal Nirvana!

No, that's absolutely not how I use them and in my opinion they don't sound best like that, just like a slightly nasal middy clean boost. In fact I never use any overdrive pedal like that.

I set them so they sound good as a stand-alone overdrive into a clean sound - drive about 1 o'clock usually, tone probably about 11 o'clock (depends on the guitar), level to match the clean sound or very slightly higher so it doesn't drop in the mix. Then add *that* sound to the amp's own distortion.

NelsonP

ICBM said:

No, that's absolutely not how I use them and in my opinion they don't sound best like that, just like a slightly nasal middy clean boost. In fact I never use any overdrive pedal like that.

I set them so they sound good as a stand-alone overdrive into a clean sound - drive about 1 o'clock usually, tone probably about 11 o'clock (depends on the guitar), level to match the clean sound or very slightly higher so it doesn't drop in the mix. Then add *that* sound to the amp's own distortion.

I've just been messing about with my Soul Food and the above is pretty much where I got to. The DSL20 has quite a lot of headroom on the green channel and nearly none on the red channel, so it's not really possible to get a volume boost on the red channel. 

So volume at 9-10 o clock, tone at 11, drive at 1. It sounds pretty good and gives more sustain for solo's, harmonics etc. Just need to be careful it doesn't sound too thin. I'm using the red channel on the amp 'ultra gain'), with the gain at 10 o'clock.

Will have another play with the OCD at some point.

rockmonster

Volume on amp high both channels gain low and turn up the gain until you find the sweet spot on classic and ultra. DSL’s need lower gain and high vol to sound their best AFAIK! Then set the SD1 like ICBM said. Sorted!

Sassafras

Why bother having an overdrive pedal if you're only gonna set the drive to zero?

bananaman

ICBM said:

bananaman said:

That's worth clarifying. When I say use an 808 (or an SD1), I don't mean use the overdrive from the pedal - it's rubbish. I assume this is common knowledge, but just on the small chance that it isn't, do the following: set the drive to zero, level to maximum, tone to taste (start at half) into your already cooking Marshall and enjoy tonal Nirvana!

No, that's absolutely not how I use them and in my opinion they don't sound best like that, just like a slightly nasal middy clean boost. In fact I never use any overdrive pedal like that.

I set them so they sound good as a stand-alone overdrive into a clean sound - drive about 1 o'clock usually, tone probably about 11 o'clock (depends on the guitar), level to match the clean sound or very slightly higher so it doesn't drop in the mix. Then add *that* sound to the amp's own distortion.

It's a matter of personal taste then but I think the drive from them sounds rubbish. They can sound like a slightly nasal clean boost if your amp is at bedroom volume. At gigging volume, with the amp working harder, that setting is the absolute tits.

bananaman

Sassafras said:

Why bother having an overdrive pedal if you're only gonna set the drive to zero?

Because the 'overdrive' from the pedal sounds rubbish! What you want is the tone-shaping effect. It's clearly serendipity that someone discovered that. However the idea that a solid state pedal designed in the 70s and made with about £1 worth of parts sounds like 'screaming tubes' is just silly!

bananaman

Thank god for youtube. Here is a guy demonstrating exactly what I mean:

Boost Pedal Comparison (through a JCM 800 Studio) - YouTube

Now that being said I would sometimes run the pedal drive up to about 2 in order to add a bit of grit, but mostly not.

bananaman

Also that's not to say that the overdrive from EVERY solid state pedal is rubbish; some of the 'amp in a box' ones are amazing.

Sassafras

bananaman said:

Thank god for youtube. Here is a guy demonstrating exactly what I mean:

Boost Pedal Comparison (through a JCM 800 Studio) - YouTube

Now that being said I would sometimes run the pedal drive up to about 2 in order to add a bit of grit, but mostly not.

I thought they all sounded the same.

bananaman

My goodness it's easy to get lost in youtube land once you start!

This is an awesome illustration of exactly what I mean. Not a rock/metal tone at all this time, but again the same trick. Zero drive at all from the pedal, output set to max. Amazing that it works for blues as well!:

https://youtu.be/wJ8UMHODKuU?t=312

ThePrettyDamned

I always add drive from the pedal too - the common wisdom is not to, but a Marshall in itself doesn't have loads of heavy distortion. Add in drive and you get loads of harmonics and a thicker tone. 

I have used drives with gain near zero into already high gain amps to tighten the tone and boost it a bit, but it's not really best use of the pedal, especially as a lot of modern high gain amps are plenty tight enough as it is. 

Zakk Wylde gets his huge sound from an sd-1 (clone by mxr), jcm800 (which isn't anywhere near a high gain amp) and active pickups. 

ICBM

bananaman said:

It's a matter of personal taste then but I think the drive from them sounds rubbish. They can sound like a slightly nasal clean boost if your amp is at bedroom volume. At gigging volume, with the amp working harder, that setting is the absolute tits. 

Ah, the old "it sounds great into a gigging amp and if you don't do it that way then you're a bedroom player" thing .

Not really having a go at you, but that's the way it always comes across when people say things like that. You might be surprised to know that I also play gigs - I've used pedals at every one I've ever played as far as I can remember. My experience is that pushing an already overdriven amp harder at gig volume with more volume and not more dirt just produces over-saturated mush.

Which is what I hear in those videos, including the patronising "how not to use an overdrive" thing. By far the worst sound he got was the supposed 'SRV' sound.

bananaman said:

Because the 'overdrive' from the pedal sounds rubbish! What you want is the tone-shaping effect. It's clearly serendipity that someone discovered that.

No, what *I* want is the additional gain and harmonics. If I want tone-shaping I would use a graphic EQ.

But both approaches are valid, if they're what works for you.

bananaman

Sassafras said:

bananaman said:

Thank god for youtube. Here is a guy demonstrating exactly what I mean:

Boost Pedal Comparison (through a JCM 800 Studio) - YouTube

Now that being said I would sometimes run the pedal drive up to about 2 in order to add a bit of grit, but mostly not.

I thought they all sounded the same.

That's not at all surprising, as they are virtually the same. The point is, did you hear what they did to the amp tone?

Sassafras

bananaman said:

Sassafras said:

bananaman said:

Thank god for youtube. Here is a guy demonstrating exactly what I mean:

Boost Pedal Comparison (through a JCM 800 Studio) - YouTube

Now that being said I would sometimes run the pedal drive up to about 2 in order to add a bit of grit, but mostly not.

I thought they all sounded the same.

That's not at all surprising, as they are virtually the same. The point is, did you hear what they did to the amp tone?

Sorry, I'm not impressed.
I thought the Marshall sounded awful to begin with and just got worse.
The Fender amp lost it's nice Fender clarity and became too compressed and undefined.
I'm not a fan of amp distortion. I like a loud clean amp with a bit of pedal drive, but not from a Tubescreamer.
I find an EQ pedal more useful than any boosters.

TTBZ

Sassafras said:

Why bother having an overdrive pedal if you're only gonna set the drive to zero?

Tone shaping. Pretty much anyone who plays high gain uses a TS or similar in front of their amp to tighten it up. Especially useful with lower tunings to preserve the attack.

bananaman

ICBM said:

bananaman said:

It's a matter of personal taste then but I think the drive from them sounds rubbish. They can sound like a slightly nasal clean boost if your amp is at bedroom volume. At gigging volume, with the amp working harder, that setting is the absolute tits. 

Ah, the old "it sounds great into a gigging amp and if you don't do it that way then you're a bedroom player" thing .

Not really having a go at you, but that's the way it always comes across when people say things like that. You might be surprised to know that I also play gigs - I've used pedals at every one I've ever played as far as I can remember. My experience is that pushing an already overdriven amp harder at gig volume with more volume and not more dirt just produces over-saturated mush.

Which is what I hear in those videos, including the patronising "how not to use an overdrive" thing. By far the worst sound he got was the supposed 'SRV' sound.

bananaman said:

Because the 'overdrive' from the pedal sounds rubbish! What you want is the tone-shaping effect. It's clearly serendipity that someone discovered that.

No, what *I* want is the additional gain and harmonics. If I want tone-shaping I would use a graphic EQ.

But both approaches are valid, if they're what works for you.

I certainly didn't mean to come across as having a go. It's just my experience that some Marshalls (DSL included) can sound a bit nasal at bedroom levels, and more so when boosted.  Agreed it's all down to personal taste, and arguments over taste are hard to win!

bananaman

Sassafras said:

bananaman said:

Sassafras said:

bananaman said:

Thank god for youtube. Here is a guy demonstrating exactly what I mean:

Boost Pedal Comparison (through a JCM 800 Studio) - YouTube

Now that being said I would sometimes run the pedal drive up to about 2 in order to add a bit of grit, but mostly not.

I thought they all sounded the same.

That's not at all surprising, as they are virtually the same. The point is, did you hear what they did to the amp tone?

Sorry, I'm not impressed.
I thought the Marshall sounded awful to begin with and just got worse.
The Fender amp lost it's nice Fender clarity and became too compressed and undefined.
I'm not a fan of amp distortion. I like a loud clean amp with a bit of pedal drive, but not from a Tubescreamer.
I find an EQ pedal more useful than any boosters.

Just goes to show how personal things are! I thought the transformation of the Fender in particular was impressive. So much more alive and dynamic with the boost on.

ICBM

bananaman said:

I thought the transformation of the Fender in particular was impressive. So much more alive and dynamic with the boost on.

I thought it sounded best when the amp was only slightly overdriven and he added the pedal *dirt* as well. I also thought it sounded pretty good with the amp completely clean and just the pedal dirt - at least after he'd turned it up so it was properly unity volume - but horrible when the amp was more heavily overdriven with the pedal being used just as a boost - both mushy and grating, which is how I always find that way of doing it.

If it matters I used to use a Fender Bassman head at one time - the times I was really able to get it cranked up to just the point of breakup is probably the best sound I've ever had at gig volume, in fact. But I don't really like amp distortion much beyond that, unless it's pure preamp overdrive - so my preference is a two-channel amp with one completely clean and the other moderate crunch, and the pedals set to work with both.

For what it's worth there's photographic evidence that SRV didn't use his Tube Screamers like that either - at least one of them was set with the distortion above halfway.

rockmonster

It’s all down to individual taste. What works for one person may not work for another. Everyone is different, everyone’s ears are different. It depends where you play, how loud you play, what amp, what guitar, what pedal and what genre of music you play. We are all able to say you are wrong or you are right. You are and you are not! Simples!

Modulus_Amps

Here is a left field suggestion that I am sure will get many laughs, but I had a DS1 running into a distorting M style channel a fews months ago and it was glorious, It was so good that Chris, who was with me at the time, went out and bought a DS1 for himself.

It sounds utter shite into a clean channel, but the raspy distortion and uncompressed drive worked well with the amp.

Thing is, the pedal Chris bought was a new type with SMT components, mine was an older one and it sounded quite a bit better than the new one. Not sure if the SD1 has the same issues. Anyway if you have one try it and get your 80 gear on.