Parcelforce letter for customs charge

PC_Dave

Not sure what to do here - I ordered an item from a European seller last week, and the website and all invoices state that the price includes VAT, excludes shipping. The item was delivered a couple of days ago (It was moved across Europe by DHL, then handed over to Parcelforce for UK delivery). Today I have received a letter from PF saying I owe them £50  for customs charges including VAT, and if it's not paid then the item won't be released for delivery....? (Even though it's here already...)
I'm probably being thick here, but if the seller says VAT included, then what am I being charged for? 

Cirrus

I guess I'd reply to the letter explaining & enclosing a copy of the invoice that shows you've already paid VAT, and see what they come back with.

PC_Dave

Cirrus said:

I guess I'd reply to the letter explaining & enclosing a copy of the invoice that shows you've already paid VAT, and see what they come back with.

Thanks. It's weird, as reading the charges they are as follows:

Customs Duty £6.72
Import VAT £31.22
Clearance Fee £12.00

Are they seriously charging me £12 in order to charge me the rest?

Musicwolf

PC_Dave said:

Import VAT £31.22

That would make the value before VAT = £156.10.  A European supplier should only be collecting the VAT at source if the value is below £135 (I'm not sure if that's the value with or without VAT but makes no difference in this case).

I'd check your invoice and see what the supplier has charged you for.

Cirrus

Well, my understanding of the clearance fee is that these companies initially pay the cost that the importer is responsible for in order to get it into the country, and are allowed to charge an administrative fee for that - and of course they all charge as much as they think they can get away with, as a flat fee.

But in this case, if you've already paid the VAT, then they've paid VAT and Customs when they didn't need to. That's their mistake to rectify, not yours, but unless you tell them it happened, they won't know.

ICBM

PC_Dave said:

Are they seriously charging me £12 in order to charge me the rest?

They're trying to, yes. They do that...

I would send them a copy of the paperwork you have showing VAT already paid and tell them you aren't paying any more. I probably wouldn't mention you've already got the goods, let them work that one out when they try to withhold delivery .

PC_Dave

Musicwolf said:

PC_Dave said:

Import VAT £31.22

That would make the value before VAT = £156.10.  A European supplier should only be collecting the VAT at source if the value is below £135 (I'm not sure if that's the value with or without VAT but makes no difference in this case).

I'd check your invoice and see what the supplier has charged you for.

Aha. I think I can see what they've done. Their website says all prices including VAT, but they've removed VAT at the payment stage. I think i'll be contacting them to find out what they're playing at. It was a bit confusing, as they gave a 25% discount on the item, and it was paid for in Euros.

More to follow!

Cirrus

So you're a smuggler then.

fretmeister

Clearance / Admin fee is normal. You don't expect them to do the paperwork for nothing do you?

Ignoring that you seem to have already paid the vat etc for a moment. Dealing with HMRC personally is one of the most painfully annoying things a human can do. Courier says they have the item. You then declare it to HMRC., 3 weeks later they tell you what you owe. You pay. another 3 weeks later HMRC confirm the item can be delivered to you. Then you get it. About 2 months after it arrived in the country. That assumes there are no delays or paperwork issues.

The £8-£14 charge for doing all that for you is worth every single penny.

Philly_Q

PC_Dave said:

Cirrus said:

I guess I'd reply to the letter explaining & enclosing a copy of the invoice that shows you've already paid VAT, and see what they come back with.

Thanks. It's weird, as reading the charges they are as follows:

Customs Duty £6.72
Import VAT £31.22
Clearance Fee £12.00

Are they seriously charging me £12 in order to charge me the rest?

Yes they are. 

I haven't had it happen in a while, but in the past I've challenged a couple of these and although I was able to reclaim the VAT and duty which had been wrongly charged, they wouldn't refund the clearance fee (which was £8 in those days).

PC_Dave

fretmeister said:

Clearance / Admin fee is normal. You don't expect them to do the paperwork for nothing do you?

Ignoring that you seem to have already paid the vat etc for a moment. Dealing with HMRC personally is one of the most painfully annoying things a human can do. Courier says they have the item. You then declare it to HMRC., 3 weeks later they tell you what you owe. You pay. another 3 weeks later HMRC confirm the item can be delivered to you. Then you get it. About 2 months after it arrived in the country. That assumes there are no delays or paperwork issues.

The £8-£14 charge for doing all that for you is worth every single penny.

But I didn't ask them to And I already have the item, so....

rogd

I bought a guitar from the USA about 10 years ago and it was delivered straight to me. I received the same letter and just ignored it. They never followed up. I reckon I was just lucky. Sit back and see what happens.

TTony

PC_Dave said:

 Their website says all prices including VAT, but they've removed VAT at the payment stage. 

VAT isn't just a UK tax - all EU countries charge it.

Hence their website will say that prices include VAT.

However, for countries outside the EU, VAT is not payable in the country of sale, it's payable (together with any other applicable duties and fees)  in the country of purchase.  Hence, as you were buying for delivery to the UK, they removed the  VAT that would have been payable in whichever country they're located in, and left you to pay it (together with, etc) in the UK.

PC_Dave

TTony said:

PC_Dave said:

 Their website says all prices including VAT, but they've removed VAT at the payment stage. 

VAT isn't just a UK tax - all EU countries charge it.

Hence their website will say that prices include VAT.

However, for countries outside the EU, VAT is not payable in the country of sale, it's payable (together with any other applicable duties and fees)  in the country of purchase.  Hence, as you were buying for delivery to the UK, they removed the  VAT that would have been payable in whichever country they're located in, and left you to pay it (together with, etc) in the UK.

Aha, that makes sense, thank you @TTony - so I do need to pay PF.

Are you going to charge me £12 for that information just like Parcelforce?

ToneControl

PC_Dave said:

Musicwolf said:

PC_Dave said:

Import VAT £31.22

That would make the value before VAT = £156.10.  A European supplier should only be collecting the VAT at source if the value is below £135 (I'm not sure if that's the value with or without VAT but makes no difference in this case).

I'd check your invoice and see what the supplier has charged you for.

Aha. I think I can see what they've done. Their website says all prices including VAT, but they've removed VAT at the payment stage. I think i'll be contacting them to find out what they're playing at. It was a bit confusing, as they gave a 25% discount on the item, and it was paid for in Euros.

More to follow!

Looks like the seller just followed the rules, since your basic cost was more than £135 (including postage!!!!)
Parcelforce have messed up - they should have delivered it only after payment for VAT and duty
Many would keep quiet and wait to see if they remember to ask again

ToneControl

TTony said:

PC_Dave said:

 Their website says all prices including VAT, but they've removed VAT at the payment stage. 

VAT isn't just a UK tax - all EU countries charge it.

Hence their website will say that prices include VAT.

However, for countries outside the EU, VAT is not payable in the country of sale, it's payable (together with any other applicable duties and fees)  in the country of purchase.  Hence, as you were buying for delivery to the UK, they removed the  VAT that would have been payable in whichever country they're located in, and left you to pay it (together with, etc) in the UK.

not for orders under £135
I had an order from Germany 2 weeks ago, Thomann charged me the VAT

TTony

ToneControl said:

not for orders under £135
I had an order from Germany 2 weeks ago, Thomann charged me the VAT

Correct.

But not relevant in this case given the value quoted above.

TTony

PC_Dave said:

Are you going to charge me £12 for that information just like Parcelforce?

There's an idea ...

MtB

If the item has already been delivered to you I'd say wait and see what PF do. It almost has the hallmark of a scam - like the recent DHL parcel text scam.

PC_Dave

MtB said:

If the item has already been delivered to you I'd say wait and see what PF do. It almost has the hallmark of a scam - like the recent DHL parcel text scam.

I thought that initially, but it had the delivery note number from the package, and all the details of the company it came from etc

TTony

I’d look at this experience positively.

PF used to insist on any charges being paid before they’d deliver.  A package arrives from, lets say Japan (because that’s where it did come from!).  Arrives in the UK in a couple of days.  Clears customs and arrives at local PF depot a couple of days later.

Wait.

Wait.

After a couple of weeks, get letter from PF explaining that the package can be collected once fees have been paid.  Pay fees immediately.  Collect.


At least you skipped the couple of weeks delay whilst it sat in a PF depot.  I’d pay the £12 just for the extra speed!