Ian Elson Guitars - AVOID!!

stickyfiddle

Thing is, most of us here have a decent understanding of what goes into a good guitar, but I'm betting your average casual player who isn't on forums constantly wouldn't understand that - they'll just see "handbuilt" and "costs more than double what a Squier does" and assume it's going to be good. 

Much like the Cleartone buyers who presumably think the reason they're struggling is their strings are too close together - they just don't know any better. 

Danielsguitars

It's people like this that give a proper custom builder a bad name and potentially put off anyone ever ordering anything again.

A custom flat top build is still more expensive to do than any mass made sub £1500 guitar.

I built a strat for someone and the whole lot works out about £1,000 in parts then add time and paying for a workshop etc, even at £2k no one is getting rich, I also had to customise the neck after it was finished to suit him a little better, it was only a small amount needed but still that's extra time doing it and refinishing it, that's what I hope a custom build gets you anyway, main thing he loves the guitar.

By contrast I set up a £150 squire tele bullet and was genuinely shocked how good it was, change the electrics and you have a good gigging guitar, we small builders cannot compete with this, we're a different market and only the individual can justify if it's worth it, just do your homework and go by recommendations if possible and visit the workshop.

Not sure how he comes back from this tbh but he'll have to work twice as hard now and get to some shows if possible, this is not an easy fix, good luck to him.

SlopeSoarer

IanElsonGuitar said:

I already said all money is paid back in full. No avoidance...I admitted I messed up but no money is owed to anyone. I did already address this

Fair play to coming on to the thread and responding.

I just looked at the 2 discussions you have started, which go....

• Hey guys...I made a prototype guitar last year which was very badly thought through.
• Last year I cancelled a crowd-funding campaign to help start the new guitar business.I wasn't ready and the guitars weren't ready.
  

There does seem to be a constant theme!

Good luck in whatever you choose to do next

Grumpyrocker

Whether that amount of money for a custom guitar is realistic or not - the facts remain there's some very poor customer service and dishonesty at work. 

poopot

stickyfiddle said:

Thing is, most of us here have a decent understanding of what goes into a good guitar, but I'm betting your average casual player who isn't on forums constantly wouldn't understand that - they'll just see "handbuilt" and "costs more than double what a Squier does" and assume it's going to be good. 

Dunno about that... doesn’t take much to do a bit of research...

just googled “UK custom guitars” and the first result was a list from this forum...

same with Daniels guitars, Ivison guitars, feline guitars... all return at least one result from this forum on the first page of google...

similarly with Ian Elson guitars you get a result from this forum... and unlike the others above, it’s not a glowing result!... I’m guessing there will be another result once the internet catches up!...

personally the first thing I would do if I was spending money on something custom is research the crap out of it!...

not knocking the folk that have been wronged... but it wouldn’t have taken five minutes to suss out the guy is not a great luthier or suss out that getting a custom guitar costs a fair bit more than £700.

Kilgore

SlopeSoarer said:

Fair play to coming on to the thread and responding.



Good luck in whatever you choose to do next

I think they're hiring at Gibson. 

viclennard

poopot said:

stickyfiddle said:

Thing is, most of us here have a decent understanding of what goes into a good guitar, but I'm betting your average casual player who isn't on forums constantly wouldn't understand that - they'll just see "handbuilt" and "costs more than double what a Squier does" and assume it's going to be good. 

Dunno about that... doesn’t take much to do a bit of research...

just googled “UK custom guitars” and the first result was a list from this forum...

same with Daniels guitars, Ivison guitars, feline guitars... all return at least one result from this forum on the first page of google...

similarly with Ian Elson guitars you get a result from this forum... and unlike the others above, it’s not a glowing result!... I’m guessing there will be another result once the internet catches up!...

personally the first thing I would do if I was spending money on something custom is research the crap out of it!...

not knocking the folk that have been wronged... but it wouldn’t have taken five minutes to suss out the guy is not a great luthier or suss out that getting a custom guitar costs a fair bit more than £700.

I did my research back in December 2019 when this started. There were no negative comments in google at that point.

I spoke with a couple of people who had bought guitars from him. I looked very carefully at the photos and the specs. No red flags there.

Too cheap? His explanation of bulk saving made sense. And he's not a full-time luthier - he does other woodworking for a living. As far as I could see, the downside was the two-and-a-half month wait. The upside was one of his standard guitar designs with custom elements and cheaper than he would usually charge.

Basic design aside, I didn't expect a guitar that was unfinished, geometrically flawed and completely unplayable. I also didn't expect to have to deal with an inveterate liar.

PC_Dave

Rumour has it his other hobby is Brain Surgery...

poopot

viclennard said:

I did my research back in December 2019 when this started. There were no negative comments in google at that point.

I spoke with a couple of people who had bought guitars from him. I looked very carefully at the photos and the specs. No red flags there.

Too cheap? His explanation of bulk saving made sense. And he's not a full-time luthier - he does other woodworking for a living. As far as I could see, the downside was the two-and-a-half month wait. The upside was one of his standard guitar designs with custom elements and cheaper than he would usually charge.

Basic design aside, I didn't expect a guitar that was unfinished, geometrically flawed and completely unplayable. I also didn't expect to have to deal with an inveterate liar.

All fair points... and I’m not having a dig at you and the others that have been ripped off.

But yes, even with his bullshit about bulk saving it’s still too cheap.

take the wood out of the equation.
bare knuckles £275
hipshot - £140

youre still at £400 just for those parts alone! and he deffo won’t be getting a discount for either of those items.

you mention another downside being a two and a half month wait... two and a half months would have rung a massive alarm bell there for me tbh...

ask @FelineGuitars @Danielsguitars @IvisonGuitars what their build times would be for a double cut like @IanElsonGuitar is promoting...

again, not knocking you guys in the slightest, I hope the prick pays what he owes and stops making these things... it only serves to give a bad name to custom guitars and the very talented folk that build them.

have to ask, after all of this would you consider commissioning a custom build again?

GoldenEraGuitars

octatonic said:

...

Removed my critique.
I said all I had to say 5 year ago, really.

Tbf, I thought it was all valid. 

Mototech

poopot said:

viclennard said:

I did my research back in December 2019 when this started. There were no negative comments in google at that point.

I spoke with a couple of people who had bought guitars from him. I looked very carefully at the photos and the specs. No red flags there.

Too cheap? His explanation of bulk saving made sense. And he's not a full-time luthier - he does other woodworking for a living. As far as I could see, the downside was the two-and-a-half month wait. The upside was one of his standard guitar designs with custom elements and cheaper than he would usually charge.

Basic design aside, I didn't expect a guitar that was unfinished, geometrically flawed and completely unplayable. I also didn't expect to have to deal with an inveterate liar.

All fair points... and I’m not having a dig at you and the others that have been ripped off.

But yes, even with his bullshit about bulk saving it’s still too cheap.

take the wood out of the equation.
bare knuckles £275
hipshot - £140

youre still at £400 just for those parts alone! and he deffo won’t be getting a discount for either of those items.

you mention another downside being a two and a half month wait... two and a half months would have rung a massive alarm bell there for me tbh...

ask @FelineGuitars @Danielsguitars @IvisonGuitars what their build times would be for a double cut like @IanElsonGuitar is promoting...

again, not knocking you guys in the slightest, I hope the prick pays what he owes and stops making these things... it only serves to give a bad name to custom guitars and the very talented folk that build them.

have to ask, after all of this would you consider commissioning a custom build again?

I did commission another build from Moar Guitars & the experience was the polar opposite of my other experience. Very helpful & the guitar shipped on the exact date I was given when I paid my deposit.

When it arrived, it did have a small issue, but it was sorted for me quickly & without any fuss.

revsorg

@Mototech - oooh - I just started following Moar guitars on Instagram, their work looks really interesting - can you share any pics of your guitar please?

Mototech

org said:

@Mototech - oooh - I just started following Moar guitars on Instagram, their work looks really interesting - can you share any pics of your guitar please?

I'm afraid I can't attach photos  on the forum from my phone. It was a Naked Morty, with P90 fitted back a bit from the bridge, he winds his own pickups, so to whatever spec is desired.

He's a lovely guy to chat to, happy to spend whatever time is needed to make sure the customer gets what he wants.

Very highly recommend.

viz

Regarding the pricing, I really do think that is the seller’s choice and it’s not up to us to challenge his motivations or business model. There is not necessarily a hard link between price and cost, or price and quality. Maybe the seller is fabulously rich and is doing this charitably as a hobby, and happy to make a loss on each guitar. 

I do understand that undercuts professionals (which is fair game for discussion, of course) but we can’t really infer much from the pricing. 

olafgarten

viz said:

Regarding the pricing, I really do think that is the seller’s choice and it’s not up to us to challenge his motivations or business model. There is not necessarily a hard link between price and cost, or price and quality. Maybe the seller is fabulously rich and is doing this charitably as a hobby, and happy to make a loss on each guitar. 

I do understand that undercuts professionals (which is fair game for discussion, of course) but we can’t really infer much from the pricing. 

The bit about not caring about profit is a possibility, I knew someone who after retiring built tables and other furniture as a hobby and sold them for the material cost. 

Schnozz

Considering the flagship model is called the 'Dog Turd Deluxe', I wouldn't have even bothered to look at the specs.

poopot

viz said:

Regarding the pricing, I really do think that is the seller’s choice and it’s not up to us to challenge his motivations or business model. There is not necessarily a hard link between price and cost, or price and quality. Maybe the seller is fabulously rich and is doing this charitably as a hobby, and happy to make a loss on each guitar. 

I do understand that undercuts professionals (which is fair game for discussion, of course) but we can’t really infer much from the pricing. 

Yep, totally up to him what he charges... and just maybe he’s an eccentric millionaire who wants to spread guitar joy throughout the world... perhaps he’s just shit at math!...

however, IMO I suspect he’s just banging them out without any care to quality or ability to build and hoping that his price will get him enough orders that he can scrape a living... which is not sustainable and also not a way to ensure a quality product... as shown by the op in this thread...

Onpar

Danielsguitars said:

It's people like this that give a proper custom builder a bad name and potentially put off anyone ever ordering anything again.

A custom flat top build is still more expensive to do than any mass made sub £1500 guitar.

I built a strat for someone and the whole lot works out about £1,000 in parts then add time and paying for a workshop etc, even at £2k no one is getting rich, I also had to customise the neck after it was finished to suit him a little better, it was only a small amount needed but still that's extra time doing it and refinishing it, that's what I hope a custom build gets you anyway, main thing he loves the guitar.

By contrast I set up a £150 squire tele bullet and was genuinely shocked how good it was, change the electrics and you have a good gigging guitar, we small builders cannot compete with this, we're a different market and only the individual can justify if it's worth it, just do your homework and go by recommendations if possible and visit the workshop.

Not sure how he comes back from this tbh but he'll have to work twice as hard now and get to some shows if possible, this is not an easy fix, good luck to him.

If it's a change to the guitar after it's been built to spec, like the neck example you gave, I assume the customer has to pay extra for the modification?

mendy

 

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