Jensen P12R

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menamestommenamestom Frets: 3629

Mate has just got a nice tweed deluxe but the speaker sounded raspy and lacked headroom.

Is that just a characteristic of the P12R or will is smooth out after breakup?

Was jamming with my tweed Deluxe at the same time and my neo creamback sounds much better in comparison.  

I’ve told him a Blue is supposed to be one of the best, they don’t rasp like the Jensens do they?
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Comments

  • HottubesHottubes Frets: 292
    Don't know about the 12" jensens. I had a srri and once the speakers where broken in it was much better sounding. But they do take quite a while to break in in my experience.   Give it some time.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 56973
    I’m not a big fan of the P12R, it’s really quite poor for efficiency and lacks bass, even when the scratchiness goes away. The Q or N are much better.

    I put an R in a Deluxe Reverb once and thought the amp wasn’t working properly, it was so quiet.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • susbemolsusbemol Frets: 137
    I think the Rs pretty much always sound like the OP described. As ICBM suggested, I've got a P12N in my Deluxe Reverb and it sounds so much better although it also took an age to break in.
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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 3629
    Hottubes said:
    Don't know about the 12" jensens. I had a srri and once the speakers where broken in it was much better sounding. But they do take quite a while to break in in my experience.   Give it some time.
    I think even if the sound improves the sensitivity will be an issue for him at 93.7 DB.

    He's thinking of a blue which would probably double the volume of the amp, have also advised there are cheaper good sounding ceramic options which would increase the volume.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 7798
    I've had a P12R, I think that is the characteristic of that speaker.

    The Blue is great in a tweed style amp.  The guy who used to be the manager in Chandlers had an original 60s Blue in a Lazy J 20.  That was about as good as it gets.
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  • munckeemunckee Frets: 8037
    Haven't tried the 12 but the 10r and the 6r are great speakers for a clean blackface sound.  Don't know about deluxes.
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  • EmprizeAmpsEmprizeAmps Frets: 7
    I've used Jensens R & Q in the 5E3 and you can get a bit of a papery rasp when they are driven.  Celestion Blue (100dB), WGS Black and Blue (99.49dB), and Fane A60 (100dB) are all loud speakers, produce the distinctive chime of the Alnico and when driven give a full driven beefy bottom end and no rasp on the top end - they tend to have more clarity but a great driven tone.  They are expensive though.  I've tried some Eminence too ... Cannabis Rex and 1258, both of which are really good and don't quite have the mids of the Alnicos.  They also have a smoother breakup compared to the Jensens and have the sensitivity to make them louder than the Jensens.  
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  • susbemolsusbemol Frets: 137
    edited July 19
    I think most people tend to think of the Qs as the speakers originally used with 5E3s back in the day, even though the Rs were used as well. I think the Qs work a bit better because they are still not ridiculously loud speakers and they also cut a little bit of bottom end which can be a great thing with Tweed Deluxes but they're also not quite as raspy as the Rs.

    At the end of the day, there is no definite right answer... just whatever works for you. I have a WGS G12C in my 5E3 and it works really well too.
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  • EmprizeAmpsEmprizeAmps Frets: 7
    +1 on no definitive answer.  It's very much personal preference.  On the WGS G12C ... very nice match.  Also consider the WGS G12Q.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 56973
    I'm extremely reluctant to try any more WGS speakers - at least if I have to pay for them - after having tried a Veteran 30. Absolutely awful thing... like a V30 with its redeeming qualities removed and the bad ones accentuated.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • noisepolluternoisepolluter Frets: 340
    Anyone tried the Eminence GA-SC59? I’m very impressed with the ceramic SC64 version in my deluxe reverb 
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 7798
    ICBM said:
    I'm extremely reluctant to try any more WGS speakers - at least if I have to pay for them - after having tried a Veteran 30. Absolutely awful thing... like a V30 with its redeeming qualities removed and the bad ones accentuated.

    I wasn't aware that the V30 has any redeeming qualities.  It's a nasty sounding speaker.

    The WGS I've got in my 68 Custom Princeton is a big improvement on the stock Celestion.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 56973
    crunchman said:

    I wasn't aware that the V30 has any redeeming qualities.  It's a nasty sounding speaker.
    It has an aggressive, edgy crunch and bite which is nasty in the right way for rock distortion sounds. The WGS one was like that but smoothed out, so it still had the upper-mid harshness and lack of real top-end, but just sounded whiny and constipated.

    crunchman said:

    The WGS I've got in my 68 Custom Princeton is a big improvement on the stock Celestion.
    Not that hard when the stock Celestion is the Ten 30 :).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • De_BatzDe_Batz Frets: 26
    Not had the 12, but I do have a set of 10Rs in a 4x10 Zilla cab. I agree that there's a period of time when they sound odd, and I can't decide whether the sound has really changed or I've just got better at dialling it in. 

    In a set like that, they're great for Super and Bassman type sounds (with my Heartbreaker) but far too loose and boomy for anything higher gain. The cab drops the volume down some compared to various 2x12s, which allows you to go that bit harder on the master, and in that particular amp, that's a good thing. 

    The very light magnet (the same as on the 12?) means you get a really specific response that's loose and enveloping in the bottom end, and it sits really well in a mix against the 2x12 V30s the other fella in my band uses. 
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  • menamestommenamestom Frets: 3629


    Thanks for the suggestions.  Good to know it will tame the rasp with break in, but it’s just not loud enough.

    As I said in the original post it’s not mine, I have a Celestion Neo Creamback which works really well, it replaced a G12H Anniversary, which was good but a bit aggressive in the top end sometimes.  The Neo smoothes it out and is much lighter to boot - great speaker.

    If my mate gets a blue I will be very interested to compare!
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  • pluckbuddypluckbuddy Frets: 51
    I've tried pretty much every speaker ever mentioned on a guitar forum with a tweed deluxe. Jensens, vintage and new, Weber 10s and 12s, Celestion (blue and gold), EVM, Tone Tubby, Austin Speaker Works, Tayden, Fane, nos alnico Eminences, random Hammond salvage speakers and more... each ahd their merits but to my surprise the crappy Celestion Rocket 50 - as used by Dumble apparently in his Tweedle Dee - really seemed to work in this context. Not too loud, light weight, but wouldn't fall apart and seemed to tame some of the harsher frequencies the 5e3 can produce to my ear. However if you want loud then go for something else. all of the other above speakers are much louder (except for the small magnet Jensens) and so will trick you into thinking they are better - at least for a while. Speaker testing with a 5e3 is fun, addictive and insane in equal measure. 
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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 1110
    De_Batz said:
    Not had the 12, but I do have a set of 10Rs in a 4x10 Zilla cab. I agree that there's a period of time when they sound odd, and I can't decide whether the sound has really changed or I've just got better at dialling it in. 
    I'm always worried it's just my ears getting used to it!
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 56973
    ... to my surprise the crappy Celestion Rocket 50 - as used by Dumble apparently in his Tweedle Dee - really seemed to work in this context. Not too loud, light weight, but wouldn't fall apart and seemed to tame some of the harsher frequencies the 5e3 can produce to my ear.
    Actually that doesn't surprise me... a rather quiet, flat-sounding speaker with no distinctive tone in an amp with no negative feedback (which tends to exaggerate the speaker response) and an over-dominant shouty characteristic could work quite well.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 1110
    ^ It's the fragile harmonics and crystal lattice.
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  • pluckbuddypluckbuddy Frets: 51
    ICBM said:
    ... to my surprise the crappy Celestion Rocket 50 - as used by Dumble apparently in his Tweedle Dee - really seemed to work in this context. Not too loud, light weight, but wouldn't fall apart and seemed to tame some of the harsher frequencies the 5e3 can produce to my ear.
    Actually that doesn't surprise me... a rather quiet, flat-sounding speaker with no distinctive tone in an amp with no negative feedback (which tends to exaggerate the speaker response) and an over-dominant shouty characteristic could work quite well.
    Interesting thought. When I was taste testing with tweed circuits and speakers I found the phase inverter to be a big influence on peaky bark of a 5e3. The 5g9 tremolux with a bassman PI was smoother with a nice compression even without feedback. I liked it with a Tayden Ace or Celestion blue. 
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