Zappa

impmann

I'm no Zappa aficionado, so it served quite well as an over-view of his career for me. TBH, I've tried previously with his music and the frankly childish sexual lyrical content of some of it put me off - I understand the humour but it made me think of 16-year-old boys sniggering at Ivor Biggun songs... and songs like Dina Moe Hum are brilliant *except* for the vocal IMHO. 

And now that is a shame, because musically its right up my strasse. This program actually made me want to look past the puerility of some of his lyrics - and I have done so. I still uphold my opinions about some of the lyrical content but musically he was in a different solar system.

So for me, the program was a success because it inspired me to look into the music more.

EricTheWeary

impmann said:

I'm no Zappa aficionado, so it served quite well as an over-view of his career for me. TBH, I've tried previously with his music and the frankly childish sexual lyrical content of some of it put me off - I understand the humour but it made me think of 16-year-old boys sniggering at Ivor Biggun songs... and songs like Dina Moe Hum are brilliant *except* for the vocal IMHO. 

And now that is a shame, because musically its right up my strasse. This program actually made me want to look past the puerility of some of his lyrics - and I have done so. I still uphold my opinions about some of the lyrical content but musically he was in a different solar system.

So for me, the program was a success because it inspired me to look into the music more.

My Zappa period was about when I was 20 and even then some of the humour seemed puerile although all that 'wackiness' and musical exploration felt like it  was opening the door to another universe at the time. I think eventually  I just lost interest in music that required that much effort to listen to. Oddly enough I was listening to Trouble Every Day recently which is the track that got him signed and that's very pithy ( almost proto rap or talking blues) so he was capable of writing lyrics that weren't about excrement or flat chested women. 

steamabacus

I would recommend Barry Miles' biography - just titled 'Frank Zappa' - for some insight into Frank's desperate desire to offend a certain type of person while making sure everything was absolutely within the letter of the law. (Also, it made him money.)  Zappa's own autobiography covers it as well but, as it's Zappa, very much in control about what he reveals ... and what he doesn't.

The film touched on it but with no real detail - that police entrapment to get him out of Studio Z (and into jail) hit him pretty hard I think.

It was the guitar solos that first caught my ear (while a teen at university) as I listened to friends' albums. I remember The Torture Never Stops making quite an impact, how something could be that creepy and yet that musically enthralling at the same time?, and Harder Than Your Husband which proved that Country and Western music could be good (if it was funny).

I think a lot of the humour is 'of its time' a lot like, say, Derek and Clive. It certainly amused me and my mates when we were young (and very much not sober and 'clear headed').

tanihhiavlt

... cos Mozart never dabbled in scatological humour... 

Zappa lifted chart topping production values (his understanding of production was incredible) ... applied it to music that oscillated between avante garde and ironic self-deprecating pop-trash, with lyrics that could be social commentary and sleaze in the same breath and had it executed by the sharpest assembly of musicians outside a philharmonic orchestra.

I don't think it matters what anyone thinks of it, he's a part of music history.

blobb

steamabacus said:

The film touched on it but with no real detail - that police entrapment to get him out of Studio Z (and into jail) hit him pretty hard I think.

It also helped him avoid The Draft. But yes, much of his bitterness can be attributed to that incident. The Mothers folded because the 'stupid audience' didn't get what he was trying to do. He had a very cynical view of the audience. Combine the two and you start to see why he was the way he was. Getting pushed off stage cemented that view, especially as it was in the UK. he hated the British big time after the Albert Hall gigs and the obscene lyrics trial (although the transcripts are worth reading if you search for them).

CaseOfAce

I first heard Zappa in my early 20s - the older drummer in the band I was in was a massive fan. 
I listened to everyone I could get my hands on - this is back in the pre-itunes/spotify era when buying a You Can't Do That on Stage volume X on double CD was a 20 quid lucky dip...

He was a musical genius... there's no two ways about it ... BUT... unfortunately there's no getting round his weaknesses - the s*exism, misanthropy, homophobia etc.. which all too often showed on record. I'm no shrinking violet - I'm not easily offended..but some of the stuff in the cold light of day these days is not an easy listen. 

However some of my faves from him

• as mentioned previously Watermelon in Easter Hay - just ...gorgeous.. what a staggering melody
• Carolina Hard-core Ecstasy (it's a catchy song despite the very dodgy lyrics)
• that american civil war music breakdown in Easy Meat (live)  - wow - the tightness of the band..
• the US Customs immigration bit from Yellow Shark 
• I Have Been In You - just for the song title alone...
• That Evil Prince bit from Thing Fish - and stuff from that album really translated a lot better live...

I would love to have seen him with the Mothers or any of the live bands he had in the 70s... just blistering musicianship.

RocknRollDave

Funkfingers said:

RocknRollDave said:

it skimmed over huge chunks of his career, with very little of depth about his mid-period.

The documentary was hamstrung by who was available and willing to be interviewed on camera. (Some are dead. A few are in jail.) Some of what the interviewees might have discussed was technical. This would be of limited interest to the general audience.

Conspicuous by their absence:
Bozzio, Belew, Cuccurullo, Thompson, anyone from Ensemble Modern and, most of all, Dweezil.

Yes, agreed.

I understand there is some considerable distance between Dweezil and Ahmet (who WAS involved in this), hence Dweezil presumably wasn't invited. Shame, as I am sure he could give some considerable insight into Frank's music. He's very generous with this kind of thing anyway, usually.

rsvmark

RocknRollDave said:

Yes, agreed.

I understand there is some considerable distance between Dweezil and Ahmet (who WAS involved in this), hence Dweezil presumably wasn't invited. Shame, as I am sure he could give some considerable insight into Frank's music. He's very generous with this kind of thing anyway, usually.

IIRC there is some considerable family strife going on…. Dweezil has fallen out with the family I think as a result of Infighting over the estate, Zappa plays Zappa etc. Families eh? Sad

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/inside-the-zappa-family-feud-104088/

Hopefully they can/have/will reconcile

Funkfingers

I was under that impression that some resolution had been arrived at. This is not to say that the factions are talking to each other as if everything is back to how it was before hostilities broke out.

IMHO, Dweezil has an in-depth understanding of his father's music that Ahmet does not. Both brothers can (and do) hire expensive backing musicians to recreate FZ music. One tour package seeks to glorify the music whilst the other seeks to glorify the man. 

My two penn'orth is that Frank would prefer what Dweezil does.