"I say ........" How things change......

Axe_meister

There was a time when women would give as much as they got in terms of the whole old letch thing. I know still know a few and they often say they miss those time when they'd get a slightly naughty compliment and could give one back.
Outside of the general public they will still do it.
Again the whole aspect of intent and recognising intent seems to have disappeared. 
When I was in my 20s I'd often have to fix network issues under people's desks, and women would often Joke. While you're down there.... and spread their legs. It was a joke and that was it. Likewise if they wore a low cut top showing a lot of cleave I'd joke about not looking at their face when they were talking. 
Do that these days and straight off to HR. 
Working in a Millennial/Gen Z environment you hear non of that old office banter.

Simonh

Many many years ago I was one of 2 or three men working in an open plan office of around 50-60 women. I was young and very fit in those days and probably one of the youngest in the office, the amount of downright filth I had to put up with was shocking to me. It took a little while to get used to but I soon realised it was mostly designed too shock me and when I stopped reacting it petered out.

Heartfeltdawn

Brio said:

Remember when the Sun did their big thing about paedos being bad people and then a month or so later out came the 'New' St Trinian"s film and it was all "Cor look at these sexy schoolgirl stunners."

Still the gold standard for underage UK tabloid stupidity after all these years. 

dazzajl

Axe_meister said:

There was a time when women would give as much as they got in terms of the whole old letch thing. I know still know a few and they often say they miss those time when they'd get a slightly naughty compliment and could give one back.
Outside of the general public they will still do it.
Again the whole aspect of intent and recognising intent seems to have disappeared. 
When I was in my 20s I'd often have to fix network issues under people's desks, and women would often Joke. While you're down there.... and spread their legs. It was a joke and that was it. Likewise if they wore a low cut top showing a lot of cleave I'd joke about not looking at their face when they were talking. 
Do that these days and straight off to HR. 
Working in a Millennial/Gen Z environment you hear non of that old office banter.

There is a lot of very harmless banter (hate that word now but in context……) that we have lost in these current times. But it’s not been lost for no reason. That harmless chat and good old inappropriate humour forms the base of a large pyramid. Normalising that allows the next layer, wolf whistling women in the street etc. On top of that you might find the gropers. Next up perhaps the flashers. Then right at the very top are the Policemen that abduct or the serial killers   

Is it asking too much that we loose a little banter to take away that pyramid? How much stock does this theory even hold? Not my place to give definitive answers but I know I’m happy to lend a hand taking bricks out at the bottom by making some tiny changes to my day to day.  

boogieman

Simonh said:

Many many years ago I was one of 2 or three men working in an open plan office of around 50-60 women. I was young and very fit in those days and probably one of the youngest in the office, the amount of downright filth I had to put up with was shocking to me. It took a little while to get used to but I soon realised it was mostly designed too shock me and when I stopped reacting it petered out.

When I first started as a building maintenance sparks I’d always be given the worst jobs. One of them was changing out the fluorescent tubes in the bogs. It was bad enough doing the men’s because they usually stank but doing the women’s was even worse cos, well, it’s all a bit embarrassing isn’t it? I remember going into one once and there was a girl doing her makeup in the mirror. I asked if it was alright to come in? She replied only if you make me come too big boy. I went bright scarlet, she was just laughing like a drain. Probably wouldn’t happen nowadays  

Dominic

We live in an anomaly in terms of what is acceptable/considered appropriate ;
back in the evil 70'sand 80s  Carry On Camping had it's innuendo and saucy seaside postcard humour , builders would wolf whistle a 'dollybird' and Page 3 of the Sun flashed a pair of 18 year old Tits across the page .
Sounds Horrendous !
 Today we have a media culture that on one hand condemns those impositions upon women and morality and yet actively condones far more explicit and debasing ' entertainment' ........You don't have to search hard to find a reality show that glorifies a couple of young girls shagging away on camera under the Love Island sheets ,discussing blow jobs,threesomes or a group of women on a Hen Night wearing 'Strap-ons' and pretending to shag each other or presenting each other with Dildos,vibrators etc .......that's all ok apparently.........especially as most 14 year olds are allowed to watch it and then want to emulate the over-sexualised ,lip enhanced,spray-tanned foul-mouthed vacuous Ellie- May or Shanice  on Love Island
 I think there are some very mixed messages , a strange paradox in public issue morality and a peculiar perception of what is more offensive .I have also heard women from work situations in the most lewd discussions with zero filter .
 But, Page 3 Beauties ?.........an insult to all that's appropriate !

Heartfeltdawn

Dominic said:

 Today we have a media culture that on one hand condemns those impositions upon women and morality and yet actively condones far more explicit and debasing ' entertainment' ........You don't have to search hard to find a reality show that glorifies a couple of young girls shagging away on camera under the Love Island sheets ,discussing blow jobs,threesomes or a group of women on a Hen Night wearing 'Strap-ons' and pretending to shag each other or presenting each other with Dildos,vibrators etc .......that's all ok apparently.........especially as most 14 year olds are allowed to watch it and then want to emulate the over-sexualised ,lip enhanced,spray-tanned foul-mouthed vacuous Ellie- May or Shanice  on Love Island
 I think there are some very mixed messages , a strange paradox in public issue morality and a peculiar perception of what is more offensive .I have also heard women from work situations in the most lewd discussions with zero filter .
 But, Page 3 Beauties ?.........an insult to all that's appropriate !

Two questions: 

1) Would you have happy if Page 3 came back but every other day you had a cock shot instead of tits? As you seem to espouse that tits are fine, then I'd like to find out what the limit is. 

2) I wasn't aware that Love Island solely featured women contestants. Are the male contestants on this show examples of moral purity?

Heartfeltdawn

Dominic said:

 I think there are some very mixed messages , a strange paradox in public issue morality and a peculiar perception of what is more offensive .I have also heard women from work situations in the most lewd discussions with zero filter .
 But, Page 3 Beauties ?.........an insult to all that's appropriate !

There always has been. A group of schoolkids aged 12 can be shown the Venus de Milo in person but there would be outrage if they were taken to see a nude model for an art class at that age. Compare the straight laced Victorian image with the explosion in pornography as technology evolved. Blokes in dresses scare factions of society yet the getup of priests, Popes, rabbis, and that fella called Black Rod is considered fine. 

Dominic

Heartfeltdawn said:

Dominic said:

 Today we have a media culture that on one hand condemns those impositions upon women and morality and yet actively condones far more explicit and debasing ' entertainment' ........You don't have to search hard to find a reality show that glorifies a couple of young girls shagging away on camera under the Love Island sheets ,discussing blow jobs,threesomes or a group of women on a Hen Night wearing 'Strap-ons' and pretending to shag each other or presenting each other with Dildos,vibrators etc .......that's all ok apparently.........especially as most 14 year olds are allowed to watch it and then want to emulate the over-sexualised ,lip enhanced,spray-tanned foul-mouthed vacuous Ellie- May or Shanice  on Love Island
 I think there are some very mixed messages , a strange paradox in public issue morality and a peculiar perception of what is more offensive .I have also heard women from work situations in the most lewd discussions with zero filter .
 But, Page 3 Beauties ?.........an insult to all that's appropriate !

Two questions: 

1) Would you have happy if Page 3 came back but every other day you had a cock shot instead of tits? As you seem to espouse that tits are fine, then I'd like to find out what the limit is. 

2) I wasn't aware that Love Island solely featured women contestants. Are the male contestants on this show examples of moral purity?

That's some good questions ;
I wasn't campaigning to bring back a newspaper Titty fest ; I think the people that are captivated with that are either a bit simple or simply immature.
The point was more observationalist in commenting on the 'out of the Frying pan into the fire ' nature of condemning a topless Page 3 but condoning full-on sexual depravity in these types of Reality shows which seem to be far more infuential on young people .....in fact , Aspirational ,which is even more worrying.
 Personally, I do not find naked photography of either adult males or females especially offensive ,risque,taboo or exciting in any context ........in fact , I think it's very childish from both the male and female perspective to make such a big deal out of a naked body ......we all have one ;for better or worse !
 Male contestants .......I've never watched one of these shows but I would imagine that they are equally ghastly, if not more so than the girls. I once saw about 2 minutes of a similar thing called Newcastle shore or somesuch and it was just debased.
 Whether boys or girls,I come from a background where even in middle age you simply don't do things that would be disrespectful or embarrassing to your parents .
I would have no idea what the limits are as we all have different values and I don't know where the Datum line is set nor by whom.

 

Axe_meister

It is an odd time to be sure. There is a lot of self sexualization going on with the likes of onlyfans, ticktok shorts which are also appearing on youtube.
Alas I fit it the profile for targeted youtube shorts, i.e. I'm a male musician geek (my youtube history is either music, science, politics) so I often get suggestions to view a young woman wobbling her tits for 30 seconds.
So on one hand it is deemed sooooooooo bad to admire the opposite sex, yet on the other hand you get tits shoved in your face every 5 mins

Dominic

Especially by that  woman on the Insulate Britain bandwagon

Heartfeltdawn

Dominic said:

That's some good questions ;
I wasn't campaigning to bring back a newspaper Titty fest ; I think the people that are captivated with that are either a bit simple or simply immature.
The point was more observationalist in commenting on the 'out of the Frying pan into the fire ' nature of condemning a topless Page 3 but condoning full-on sexual depravity in these types of Reality shows which seem to be far more infuential on young people .....in fact , Aspirational ,which is even more worrying.
 Personally, I do not find naked photography of either adult males or females especially offensive ,risque,taboo or exciting in any context ........in fact , I think it's very childish from both the male and female perspective to make such a big deal out of a naked body ......we all have one ;for better or worse !
 Male contestants .......I've never watched one of these shows but I would imagine that they are equally ghastly, if not more so than the girls. I once saw about 2 minutes of a similar thing called Newcastle shore or somesuch and it was just debased.
 Whether boys or girls,I come from a background where even in middle age you simply don't do things that would be disrespectful or embarrassing to your parents .
I would have no idea what the limits are as we all have different values and I don't know where the Datum line is set nor by whom.

 

"Full-on sexual depravity" - which they aren't. We're not talking Soho parlour strewn with used tissues here. We're not talking cumshots getting past Ofcom scrutiny here. 

See, I don't think morals have dropped. They've simply changed. We're on a forum where musicians who fucked a lot and snorted a lot are heralded. When you get the like of Claptop, McCartney, and Brian Wilson playing tunes for the Queen despite being famous drug hoovers, then it rather makes a mockery of the 'drugs are bad m'kay' approach when I was growing up in the 90's. 

When it comes to sex, I don't think anyone would seriously advocate returning to a puritanism akin to that which saw Elvis filmed from the waist upwards. Rather I think there is a modern approach where sexuality is out there and as in your face as much as picking up a guitar and hitting power chords was. For some, their music spoke for them: with the modern influencer, their bodies and brands and images do that. 

Dominic

Gosh......There's you ...so down with the kids ;Guess I'm oler and fartier than I realised 
I'm off to buy a pack of Werther's Originals when I can find my cardi

Heartfeltdawn

Dominic said:

Gosh......There's you ...so down with the kids ;Guess I'm oler and fartier than I realised 
I'm off to buy a pack of Werther's Originals when I can find my cardi

Don't buy the sugar-free ones. Badness will occur. 

I find generational moral and ethics chat to be interesting. The young uns now drink less than my generation did, they smoke less, they're involved in fewer teenage conceptions, they're more active in politics than my generation was (irrespective of whether you agree with the politics they like, they're still involved), and yet there's a real whackdown on some of them.