Re: Strings, is there a trade off between longevity and sound Quality?

Smellyfingers

 I wondered if for any reason more durable strings may lack resonance compared with shorter life strings - because of coating?

Tannin

In a word. yes. 

In a different word, no.

Coated strings sound different. Not "better" or "worse", just different. Let's take the extreme examples and compare a set of Elixir Nanoweb 12s with a set of standard uncoated Martin 12s, both in phosphor bronze. (Or any brand of uncoated round-wound string - there isn't all that much difference between standard sets from Martin, Rotosound, Fender, Ernie Ball, D'Addario, SIT, John Pearse, Galli, Darco, GHS, or any other maker. They are certainly not "all the same" but the differences tend to be subtle.)

The uncoated strings have more edge, more bark in the sound, where the Elixirs are smoother, and are far less prone to unwanted fretting-hand noise. Which sound you prefer depends on your taste, your guitar, and your technique. Some people only like Elixirs, some people can't stand them and only like uncoated strings. Other people again like both sounds and appreciate the difference as just one more thing you can do to make interesting sounds on your various guitars.

As I understand it, Elixir winds the string, then coats it. Every other maker that I know of coats the winding wire first, then winds the string. The results are quite different. Most coated strings (Rotosound, Martin, D'Addario, Ball, GHS, and so on), from a feel and sound point of view, are somewhere in between uncoated strings and Elixirs, but leaning towards the uncoated end of the spectrum. The result seems to be fairly consistent: they sound fairly similar to uncoated strings (but just a little smoother), they feel similar to uncoated strings (but noticeably more soapy), but unfortunately they tend to squeal  under the left hand nearly as much as uncoated strings. 

I don't care so much about the lifespan (considering the money I've thrown at guitars over the journey, anything I spend on strings is just spare change), the thing I like about coated strings is the lack of left-hand squeal. The thing I like about uncoated and most non -Elixir coated strings is the sound, and the slightly rough feel under my right hand fingertips which is, for me, a big part of getting my sound. For ages now I've been looking for a string which sounds and feels similar to uncoated but doesn't squeal. There is a thread here somewhere where I write the various candidates up every now and then as I try them out.

If your main interest is lifespan and you want an "uncoated sound" or something close to it, from the ones I've tried so far I'd recommend Santa Cruz Parabolic, Rotosound Nexus, and perhaps GHS Americana, but I have a half-dozen as-yet untried sets here. Who knows? Maybe one of those will be The Perfect String.

more

The life of a wound string is  shortened by a mix of sweat ,  oil from your skin ,dirt and  rust . The result is, the sting becomes  dead. You can improve things a bit by, washing your hands , wiping  the strings with a cloth before and after use and keeping your guitar in a case. In the nineties the idea of coating the string with Teflon was invented . The string stay protected inside the plastic coating . so last longer . To me coated strings roughly the same as using a condom , there maybe  good  reasons to use one , but it is never as good as bareback.   Coating the  wire with Teflon before winding is not the same thing . It will reduce string noise, and it will reduce some of the contamination . But it will not stop  dirt and sweat  getting in between the windings or stop the core wire from rusting , so to use my original analogy    , you now have a condom with holes in it.  

bertie

try playing polywebs,  durex for strings.......... bloody horrid,  I was always a massive advocate of the naked string when Polys were all you could get (DRs were my string of choice back then)  until one day a new guitar came with nanowebs on and I was very very pleasantly surprised. 

Id agree with Tanin's comments re fresh out the bag - but the for me the trade off for "longevity" is far grater than any "loss of zing"  and I stick with Nano's 

One naked string to avoid tho,  Thomastik Spectrum Bronze  - dull as bloody dishwater 

sev112

Is this only acoustic relevant, or electric too?

bertie

sev112 said:

Is this only acoustic relevant, or electric too?

personally - I dont use coateds on electic

sev112

So is our perception that elixirs are less bright ?  

bertie

sev112 said:

So is our perception that elixirs are less bright ?  

than a decent naked string fresh out the bag,  yes  -  but personally, not that much so that nanoweb coating is terrible.  I like a bright string, and Im a 99.9% finger picker and rarely strum or use a pick

How long the naked string remains at an acceptable level of brightness, is purely subjective and impacted by individual factors like acid sweat,  smoker,  kept in case,  how often cleaned...................  etc  - as I said, as a once massive advoctate of always using nakeds -  Im more than happy with nanoweb, and the longevity of tone it affords.

Winny_Pooh

Only played elixir nanowebs, can work on some guitars, worse on most. Feel a tiny bit stiffer and last ages. I used to use them on a GS mini for years but being a bit slippery under the left hand, was sliding off notes when playing faster so am back uncoated now. 

Blueingreen

For someone like me what the strings sound like when new isn't the main factor.  I don't like changing strings and tend to leave them on for at least a few weeks.  For me uncoated strings only sound better than coated for the first couple of days. So coated strings (Elixirs) sound better for over 90% plus of their life.

B B King said in an interview I read that he put on new strings for every gig.  Given his typical schedule that more or less meant every day. He probably had a tech do it. If I was doing that I'd prefer uncoated strings.  For my purposes I much prefer Elixirs.

telehack

bertie said:

try playing polywebs,  durex for strings.......... bloody horrid,  I was always a massive advocate of the naked string when Polys were all you could get (DRs were my string of choice back then)  until one day a new guitar came with nanowebs on and I was very very pleasantly surprised. 

Id agree with Tanin's comments re fresh out the bag - but the for me the trade off for "longevity" is far grater than any "loss of zing"  and I stick with Nano's 

One naked string to avoid tho,  Thomastik Spectrum Bronze  - dull as bloody dishwater 

It just goes to show how different guitars and preferences affect this. I too dislike coated strings but I really liked the SB112 Spectrum strings from Thomastik on a Gibson acoustic. One man's dull is another man's rich. 

bertie

@telehack ; - have a norman,   but I dont dislike coateds, in fact Ive grown to quite like nanos,  (polys on the other hand..........meh. )  

I do like my sound - all sound,  including audio from TV/DVD/MP3  even neck pickups - or what ever,  with less bass than most would use - Ive always preferred CDs to vinyl,   my ears don't appreciate "warm"  to me warm = muddy

Mellish

Elixir Nanoweb and Martin MA140, my HD-28 sounds good with either. La Bella is another brand I like. DRs another. John Pearse always sound dead to me. In all cases I'll go 80/20, and 12s, simply because they sound best on this guitar. To the OP I'd say try a bunch of coated and uncoated in 80/20 and PB and find out what works for you  

telehack

bertie said:

@telehack ; - have a norman,   but I dont dislike coateds, in fact Ive grown to quite like nanos,  (polys on the other hand..........meh. )  

I do like my sound - all sound,  including audio from TV/DVD/MP3  even neck pickups - or what ever,  with less bass than most would use - Ive always preferred CDs to vinyl,   my ears don't appreciate "warm"  to me warm = muddy

@bertie Yeah, I read your post rather quickly. I probably should revisit coated strings since when I tried them they were fairly new.

bertie

telehack said:

bertie said:

@telehack ; - have a norman,   but I dont dislike coateds, in fact Ive grown to quite like nanos,  (polys on the other hand..........meh. )  

I do like my sound - all sound,  including audio from TV/DVD/MP3  even neck pickups - or what ever,  with less bass than most would use - Ive always preferred CDs to vinyl,   my ears don't appreciate "warm"  to me warm = muddy

@bertie Yeah, I read your post rather quickly. I probably should revisit coated strings since when I tried them they were fairly new.

polywebs were abhorrent  -  like having butter covered johnnies on yer strings

The only other downside of coated  is if you're a "heavy strummer"   you do get spiders webs where the pick wears the coating

Smellyfingers

Thanks for the replies, it seems that you can only use uncoated if constant cleanliness is your priority, but the condom analogy for coated strings seems to make sense.

Because I find changes quote onerous I don't have a lot of inclination to experiment with many different types on my 12 string.

FYI- I use D'Addario EJ38's, on the basis that strings is that company's sole activity, so they must have to be good at it, don't know if that makes sense though.

bertie

Smellyfingers said:

Thanks for the replies, it seems that you can only use uncoated if constant cleanliness is your priority, but the condom analogy for coated strings seems to make sense.

Because I find changes quote onerous I don't have a lot of inclination to experiment with many different types on my 12 string.

FYI- I use D'Addario EJ38's, on the basis that strings is that company's sole activity, so they must have to be good at it, don't know if that makes sense though.

I think you've misread/misinterpreted 

the "condom"  is in reference to the early POLYweb strings,  which has a MUCH thicker coating,  NANOwebs (other brands are available)  are a HUGE improvement and arent that much "less zingy" than week old naked strings.

I didnt realise you were asking this for a 12 string,  otherwise Id say - hey just get a pack and try em.  at £15 or less its got to be worth a shot  - Ive no idea what a 12 string pack would cost (dont really like 12 strings, so never owned one)

Or find a mate locally who uses coated - go have have a try/listen

crunchman

It does depend on your body chemistry.  Some people have very acid sweat, but if you don't then a good set of uncoated strings (not Ernie Ball) will last a decent amount of time.

Tannin

Ahh, a 12-string. I bought a new 12-string this time last year and experimented with strings for it. It came ex-factory with Exixir Nanowebs, which weren't bad. I replaced them with D'Addario EJ38s, which I liked, and replaced them with 6 Darco brass, which was the best idea yet. Since I stopped using a pick, I don't like playing 12-string anymore, but the wider neck makes it a brilliant instrument for fingerstyle on six strings.

So there you go: my 12-string string recommendation: Elixirs good, EJ38s better, normal 6-string set better again. Probably not much help to you. . 

(Back in the day, when I used to play 12-string almost exclusively, I preferred silk and steels, La Bella was the only brand of them I ever saw, though that was before they invented the Interwebby thing and silk and steels were always hard to get.)

sev112

Blimey , with elixirs at £18 a pop, I’d have to take a mortgage out to restring a 12 string with them 

DavidR

I've never found any correlation between the longevity of individual string types and tone. By which I mean how much I like a string when I put it on and how long the brightness and tone of a string takes to dull.

 All strings dull eventually of course.

To that extent I wouldn't differentiate between coated and uncoated. 

Treble strings and base strings often, for me, have different characteristics in a set of strings.

I suspect you are mainly discussing coated vs. uncoated, but a good example of lack of any correlation is that my favourite strings for my 2 acoustics for the last few years have been Monels (Martin MM12) - and they last for ages!

String tone is highly subjective and individual.  I hope you find what you're looking for.