The Doctor Who thread

boogieman

I haven't watched Dr Who since the David Tenant times, but caught the last half of the latest one.

I have to ask..is it always that shit?

ennspek

I suspect that episode is worth a second view. It was slow but I enjoyed the change.

frankus

digitalscream said:

Hah!!!! I've just thought of another reason they might've done this...

...it effectively makes the whole question of "how old is Doc?" meaningless. His age up to the beginning of that episode is effectively no more than a rounding error in his age now (arguments over whether it counts aside, given how many times he died).

I get up with all the book-keeping -- generally if you're going about tying up these loose ends you're not forging ahead.

I've finally caught up and if there's one thing I can say - I like the phrase "and tell them I took the long way round".

the rest, utter bollocks.

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

Hah!!!! I've just thought of another reason they might've done this...

...it effectively makes the whole question of "how old is Doc?" meaningless. His age up to the beginning of that episode is effectively no more than a rounding error in his age now (arguments over whether it counts aside, given how many times he died).

Why? He doesn't really age as a copy keeps being downloaded from a computer. He's only alive for just over 24 hours ..

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

digitalscream said:

Hah!!!! I've just thought of another reason they might've done this...

...it effectively makes the whole question of "how old is Doc?" meaningless. His age up to the beginning of that episode is effectively no more than a rounding error in his age now (arguments over whether it counts aside, given how many times he died).

Why? He doesn't really age as a copy keeps being downloaded from a computer. He's only alive for just over 24 hours ..

Jalapeno

Interesting development at the end, I liked it, I liked the music.  Great improvement.

UnclePsychosis

Sometimes I wonder whether you lot are watching different episodes to me.

That was the best episode of Who in years. Absolutely fantastic.

Heartfeltdawn

UnclePsychosis said:

Sometimes I wonder whether you lot are watching different episodes to me.

That was the best episode of Who in years. Absolutely fantastic.

*applause and wis*

Fretwired

UnclePsychosis said:

Sometimes I wonder whether you lot are watching different episodes to me.

That was the best episode of Who in years. Absolutely fantastic.

I agree ...

UnclePsychosis

Also, recently I've been watching lots of classic Who - Tom Baker's finest, etc etc. The ones everyone raves about being Who at its best. And every single one features corny dialogue, terrible acting, huge plotholes, and logical inconsistencies. Doesn't matter a jot.

People seem obsessed with making Who into something that it's *never* been.

FelineGuitars

UnclePsychosis said:

Also, recently I've been watching lots of classic Who - Tom Baker's finest, etc etc. The ones everyone raves about being Who at its best. And every single one features corny dialogue, terrible acting, huge plotholes, and logical inconsistencies. Doesn't matter a jot.

People seem obsessed with making Who into something that it's *never* been.

I watched all the Jon Pertwee ones - the same ones that I saw as a kid and I held up as the high benchmark 

They were utter tripe as far as script and any kind of believability

Todays Doctor Who is way better and this last season has been brilliant - especially the Davros episodes and the Zygon ones and actually the last one with the castle that resets itself every 24 hours.

Capaldi is pretty much my favourite Doctor now - especially as the script has let him take things a bit highbrow - even if his habit of breaking the forth wall seems odd compared to the past.

It breaks my heart that they plan to oust him as the doctor because of falling viewing numbers - especially when it has been both a better drama of late and the BBC doesn't need to compete with X Factor or whatever  n terms of viewing figures, as it doesn't have advertisers.

Apparently losing viewers for two reasons 

1) the later time slot has meant that many kids don't watch it now , or adults don't watch the live  showing as they are having dinner or going out or suchlike, amnd maybe the more mature storylines are putting the kids off

2) the lack of romance storyline and a "dishy" doctor like Tennant is losing many women viewers

Actually I think it is a better Sci-Fi show to sell to USA now than it ever was before.

If they have to let Capaldi go - I hope The BBC have the sense to retain him (and maybe Jenna Coleman) and create a new more adult series - maybe something like an X Files or even a detective type thing like Luther as Capaldi would be great in such roles.

I just binge watched The Thick of It as I failed to see it first time round and it was worth all the accolades it was given 

axisus

UnclePsychosis said:

Sometimes I wonder whether you lot are watching different episodes to me.

That was the best episode of Who in years. Absolutely fantastic.

Nope. The best by a country mile has been the Orient express in space one. Second would be the first part of the Fisher King one (or whatever they called him?). Shame they blew part two.

axisus

The trouble with Dr Who is the inconsistency of scripts, and the never ending cascade of daft/stupid stuff. I honestly believe it could be waaaay better if I was executive script editor and I had a big red pen to strike out all the garbage. Instead of 'handing' something to a writer and putting out whatever twaddle he presents, they should go the American route and get a team of writers and a DECENT producer (Moffat is a big part of the problem). American series are so much more consistent in quality of script, they are leagues ahead. Dr Who is amateurish in comparison. It has amazing production values but the writing is bargain bin for a lot of the time.

Heartfeltdawn

axisus said:The trouble with Dr Who is the inconsistency of scripts, and the never ending cascade of daft/stupid stuff. I honestly believe it could be waaaay better if I was executive script editor and I had a big red pen to strike out all the garbage. Instead of 'handing' something to a writer and putting out whatever twaddle he presents, they should go the American route and get a team of writers and a DECENT producer (Moffat is a big part of the problem). American series are so much more consistent in quality of script, they are leagues ahead. Dr Who is amateurish in comparison. It has amazing production values but the writing is bargain bin for a lot of the time.

No they're not. This constant love-in for American shite is as bad as the way fucking awful grunge bands were elevated in the plaid shirt era. They're just as shite as Doctor Who's production values. I freely admit to hating Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones, Hannibal, and pretty much every US drama released in the last decade. At least the X-Files had the good grace to take the piss out of itself every now. 

Heartfeltdawn

FelineGuitars said:

I watched all the Jon Pertwee ones - the same ones that I saw as a kid and I held up as the high benchmark 

They were utter tripe as far as script and any kind of believability

Todays Doctor Who is way better and this last season has been brilliant - especially the Davros episodes and the Zygon ones and actually the last one with the castle that resets itself every 24 hours.

Capaldi is pretty much my favourite Doctor now - especially as the script has let him take things a bit highbrow - even if his habit of breaking the forth wall seems odd compared to the past.

It breaks my heart that they plan to oust him as the doctor because of falling viewing numbers - especially when it has been both a better drama of late and the BBC doesn't need to compete with X Factor or whatever  n terms of viewing figures, as it doesn't have advertisers.

Apparently losing viewers for two reasons 

1) the later time slot has meant that many kids don't watch it now , or adults don't watch the live  showing as they are having dinner or going out or suchlike, amnd maybe the more mature storylines are putting the kids off

2) the lack of romance storyline and a "dishy" doctor like Tennant is losing many women viewers

Actually I think it is a better Sci-Fi show to sell to USA now than it ever was before.

If they have to let Capaldi go - I hope The BBC have the sense to retain him (and maybe Jenna Coleman) and create a new more adult series - maybe something like an X Files or even a detective type thing like Luther as Capaldi would be great in such roles.

I just binge watched The Thick of It as I failed to see it first time round and it was worth all the accolades it was given 

Whereas this season we've had pathetic Daleks, those bloody Vikings, the pisspoor social commentary of the Zygons, some nonsense about sand in the eye... Doctor Who is tacky. All drama is tacky. I think The Bridge is tacky in an overwrought bullshit kind of way. Silent Witness. Eastenders. None of it is believable. 

The shows that work for me are the ones prepared to send themselves up a bit. I find Game of Thrones completely unwatchable because it's so po-faced and it appears much of the audience are the same as they sink into their tits n' dragons gibberish. 

Capaldi breaking the fourth wall: been done for ages. Hartnell did in in The Daleks Masterplan with the episode 'Feast of Steven' (last scene in this script) so it's not without precedent. 

Most old drama looks daft. It's rooted in its time and so looks anachronistic. Hurrah! That's why I love the old episodes. 

And Capaldi is marvellous. The drop in audience figures is less a comment on his qualities as Doctor, more reflective of some atrocious scheduling. 

frankus

"I know you... you're a Rutan... Reuben the Rutan! you've learned to change shape!" - classic Dr Who.

"If you aren't quaking in your boots then you are either very stupid or you don't know who you're dealing with"  - Modern Dr Who.

One of these Doctors is a traveller and a denizen the other is not, he's arrogant and constantly disapproving.

Capaldi is more like the Timelords than the doctor, everyone's his burden whereas Baker casually beat up people, accepted tragedy and his inability to help - in short he was a more mature, realistic powerful character.  

Capaldi is the USA of Dr Whos.. "oh I hate being so powerfult", "I couldn't save them", "I didn't want to save him", "I will destroy and tell you all my plans a bit like Davros used to".

In the middle of the wobbling walls and repurposed household appliances sprayed silver, the Doctor was an authentic person who was an adventurer... now in the middle of convincing CGI effects is a caricature of intensity and conceit chewing the carpet.

I watch the old Dr Who and it's Pertwee and Baker not being manic allows the problems in the stories have more significance.  

Heartfeltdawn

Agreed. Modern Who is far more of an authoritarian figure than the rebel he was in the past. This season he started with the whole confession dial 'one day to live' miserable woe is me stuff and now he's ending up as judge and jury. 

Baker did manic superbly. One thing most missed is that he's actually quite quiet most of the time. When he does speak, the words have a significance to them and when the anger flowed, it was actually quite out of character. 

Give me the days when Cybermen wrote cricket gloves. 

frankus

yep that's it, they were off-beat but the situation happened without needing them to explain all of it. There was a lot of time where people weren't talking - it feels awkward watching that now because I feel like someone should be talking but it allows for a lot more drama

so, given there's a lot of talk of Lucas changing the nature of Star Wars series to fund the toy empire it created, could it be that Doctor Who shifted it's emphasis from 10-15 year olds to a lower age who'll buy more toys?

Heartfeltdawn

frankus said:

yep that's it, they were off-beat but the situation happened without needing them to explain all of it. There was a lot of time where people weren't talking - it feels awkward watching that now because I feel like someone should be talking but it allows for a lot more drama

so, given there's a lot of talk of Lucas changing the nature of Star Wars series to fund the toy empire it created, could it be that Doctor Who shifted it's emphasis from 10-15 year olds to a lower age who'll buy more toys?

Modern television as a whole doesn't like silence. Sports programmes have their background music, nature programmes get swamped by music, television simply doesn't like an audience to have to really use their ears. It's like multiple camera shots, modern television forever flicks around between images.  

Who is stuck in a quandary. When it shows something like the moron Vikings and gets criticised, then the defence is that it's a children's show. If so, then dumbing it down for children is treating them with a degree of contempt. Children are capable and can understand concepts beyond bump and go Daleks. But the high points this season have all been through dialogue: the Doctor and Davros sparring was the only redeeming factor of the opening two-parter, Capaldi's speech in the Zygon mess (horrible horrible horrible episodes), and now Capaldi taking on a whole episode virtually on his own. If there is a clash between the direction of Who in terms of the commercial versus the actual dramatic element, then they need to figure out which way to go and quickly. 

Fretwired

Tom Baker .. Jelly Babies .. yum ..