The Doctor Who thread

ICBM · October 2018

axisus said:

The only thing I didn't like was the new theme music, which was terrible.

Me neither, but I think I’ve just got used to them re-ruining it to the point it barely even irritates me any more.

Heartfeltdawn · October 2018

digitalscream said:

EricTheWeary said:

That bit at the end of the credits seemed odd.

I quite enjoyed the episode, well written and made. Also fairly sure there was a bit of Puzzle Wood ( where the purple turnip landed) which always pleases me.
Dont know about the Doctor but early days.

Totally the opposite for me. The writing was awful IMO, unlike most of the previous first-of-the-season episodes (and certainly not a patch on the Eccleston one). Totally generic-baddie-of-the-week (being a combination of just about every sci-fi trope going) without any kind of mystique whatsoever thanks to invoking The Speech of Exposition. The companions were almost totally anonymous and generic as well - I couldn't tell you their names, even though I've just watched it.

Pretty hard to miss the "Woman strong and brave, man weak and cowardly" element too, which was completely unnecessary.

That said, Jodie Whitaker was actually pretty good. Rather too much inspiration from David Tennant's incarnation, but way better than Matt Smith's attempt at the same thing. Still, aside from that small complaint it was a decent and mostly-believable performance.

If the writing carries on like this, though, she won't be able to save it and she'll just end up another casualty like Capaldi. And the bit at the end...seemed almost like they were saying, "Hey, we've got some people you might recognise coming up...purleeeeeease watch it next week!".

How I watched it:

Straight for the end credits so I can hear the new theme tune. Oooh! It's so bland. Old bits created by other people over the most boring drums in existence (and it's compressed to fuck when listening through big ol cans).

Everything kind of passes through until the sonic screwdriver scene which is just horrible. Background music is meh... ah! That cut of the kebab being stamped upon is a DC level of overwrought nonsense. Then blah on, death of lady, sad music bits that feel very similar...

End. Shit theme.

Pretty much as expected.

Absolutely no reason to ever watch it again really (that particular episode, not the series as a whole).

'tis funny though. All the talk of a new era, changing things... and here it is with a cobbled together theme and a pretty limp monster of the week. Now imagine an episode that barely featured anyone other than the title character that explored regeneration a bit more..

TimmyO · October 2018

It's a kids' show.

Love to see this kind of analysis of fucking Trumpton

darthed1981 · October 2018

TimmyO said:

It's a kids' show.

Love to see this kind of analysis of fucking Trumpton

I doubt they will let him change the name from "Washington"...

EricTheWeary · October 2018

TimmyO said:

It's a kids' show.

Love to see this kind of analysis of fucking Trumpton

I guess it's aimed at something like 'family viewing' rather than children's television but it does seem like people are looking for something in it that maybe isn't likely to ever be there. Even if it is kid's TV I don't think that means it has to be poorly written.

For me the episode was well paced, wasn't as clunky or as cheap looking as it has been and had a balance between established Whoisms and a story line that didn't require prior knowledge. That didn't make it great television but ticked the kind of boxes I suspect they were after.

I don't know if it's trying too hard to get it's PC credentials or is just a reasonable reflection of a diverse Britain. There was a sense of the female characters being the stronger/braver ones but in the history of television that's a drop in the ocean and the only notable moment of acting was ( and this surprised the heck out of me) from Bradley Walsh. On reflection the need to make the female characters the heroic ones actually made the male ones more complex and interesting - Walsh's character and his grandson have somewhere to go/ develop to. I think there is an argument there that whoever wrote this actually doesn't write good parts for women and the Doctor, Yaz and Grandma were PC cardboard cut outs.

I'm probably wrong but I think this is the first time since the Eccleston era reboot that we have begun a series with an entirely new group of characters so it's going to be early days.

Grangousier · October 2018

I think the whole world sort of reboots with a new show runner - Matt Smith's first episode was just the same in that way. It's a good policy, as it cuts everything off from the mad tangle the series got in before.

Fretwired · October 2018

TimmyO said:

It's a kids' show.

Love to see this kind of analysis of fucking Trumpton

Trumpton was awesome ...

Haven't watched Who as we had friends around so can't comment. The BBC review says it has transitioned into a child friendly show that's less dark and scary and more jolly and funny. Lee Mack is joining the cast which doesn't bode well on the scary front ... he's a funny guy not an actor .. I'd expect lots of witty one-liners.

The BBC review says of Jodie .. at this stage the character is a little too jolly and friendly, which makes building up dramatic tension almost impossible. .... when she does dispense with the flippant asides for a more profound thought, her Doctor tends to come across more like a Sunday-school teacher than a masterful rhetorician who can inspire and intimidate in equal measure.

Sounds like fewer scares (I recall complaints on Mumsnet) and a more family orientated show. Nothing wrong in that - probably not aimed at the likes of me. As @TimmyO ; says it's a now kids show.

digitalscream · October 2018

EricTheWeary said:

TimmyO said:

It's a kids' show.

Love to see this kind of analysis of fucking Trumpton

I guess it's aimed at something like 'family viewing' rather than children's television but it does seem like people are looking for something in it that maybe isn't likely to ever be there. Even if it is kid's TV I don't think that means it has to be poorly written.

It's an interesting point. I think there's generally an expectation that a series will grow with its audience, and (I could be wrong) I suspect that an awful lot of the audience are 30+, possibly even the majority.

With that said...it's not really a kids' programme, and never was after the Troughton era. Sure, there have been quite a few episodes which could be considered kid-friendly, but in the last it's been largely adult-oriented (or at least young-adult-oriented).

That doesn't mean that the writing hasn't often been immature, but that's an entirely different issue IMO.

octatonic · October 2018

It just aired here (I’m in Tasmania swing my mum atm) so had a chance to catch up with you all.

Jodie was awesome.
Not the most nuanced villain.
‘Grandmother’ subplot kinda irritated.

B minus, see me after class, ideally wearing the first costume.

Heartfeltdawn · October 2018

TimmyO said:

It's a kids' show.

Love to see this kind of analysis of fucking Trumpton

Trumpton ran from 13 episodes in 1967. Doctor Who has broken 50 years since originally broadcast, has multiple changes of lead performer, directing and production team, etc etc etc. If you can't analyse the longest running sci-fi show in the world then what can you analyse?

Who has never been under the remit of BBC Children's programming or equivalent going all the way back to the initial development involving then Head of Drama Sydney Newman. Who came onto the screens to cover a teenage and adult base at that particular point of the early evening schedule.

So criticising the change of direction in the writing is similar to the debacle of the last Star Wars film. Eric's point above about the writing for the female characters is a good one. It's pointless if you introduce more BAME or female characters if those characters are poorly written (Witness Rose in TLJ. The character and the actress weren't the issue: the pissweak writing for both character and actress were).

Fretwired · October 2018

Heartfeltdawn said:

TimmyO said:

It's a kids' show.

Love to see this kind of analysis of fucking Trumpton

Trumpton ran from 13 episodes in 1967. Doctor Who has broken 50 years since originally broadcast, has multiple changes of lead performer, directing and production team, etc etc etc. If you can't analyse the longest running sci-fi show in the world then what can you analyse?

Who has never been under the remit of BBC Children's programming or equivalent going all the way back to the initial development involving then Head of Drama Sydney Newman. Who came onto the screens to cover a teenage and adult base at that particular point of the early evening schedule.

So criticising the change of direction in the writing is similar to the debacle of the last Star Wars film. Eric's point above about the writing for the female characters is a good one. It's pointless if you introduce more BAME or female characters if those characters are poorly written (Witness Rose in TLJ. The character and the actress weren't the issue: the pissweak writing for both character and actress were).

In fairness when Who was launched there was no children's drama department - I'm not sure there is one now either - it just came under drama. I saw the first episode when it was launched in the 1960s and it went out early on a Saturday evening after Grandstand - it was a family show and I recall young kids did watch it. It wasn't specifically aimed at teenagers. In fact I, and most of my friends, stopped watching when we became teenagers as we thought it childish. We were into rock music, guitars and chased girls ... far more interesting that Daleks. I got back into it with my own kids.

axisus · October 2018

TimmyO said:

It's a kids' show.

Love to see this kind of analysis of fucking Trumpton

I want to LOL and Wiz this!

EricTheWeary · October 2018

axisus said:

TimmyO said:

It's a kids' show.

Love to see this kind of analysis of fucking Trumpton

I want to LOL and Wiz this!

Based on a list of character names there were 31 characters in Trumpton ( guest and recurring) of whom only 4 are clearly female; there are a few characters with gender neutral names but the descriptions of them use masculine pronouns so I think they were male. Only two of the female characters are defined by their occupations ( hat maker and flower seller) and the other two by their relationships to men ( wife and aunt). All the authority figures are male ( mayor, policemen,etc).
This is, obviously, a huge gender imbalance and shows a patriarchal society. Being a small, monocultural society possibly reflects how some people experienced life in the UK in 1967 but I doubt if many people lived somewhere ( outside of primarily single gender institutions such as the armed forces or prison) where men outnumbered women almost 7 to 1.

not_the_dj · October 2018

Lol/wiz for @erictheweary and his Trumpton research.

Heartfeltdawn · October 2018

Fretwired said:
In fairness when Who was launched there was no children's drama department - I'm not sure there is one now either - it just came under drama. I saw the first episode when it was launched in the 1960s and it went out early on a Saturday evening after Grandstand - it was a family show and I recall young kids did watch it. It wasn't specifically aimed at teenagers. In fact I, and most of my friends, stopped watching when we became teenagers as we thought it childish. We were into rock music, guitars and chased girls ... far more interesting that Daleks. I got back into it with my own kids.

That's the point. As a devoted Whovian with enough books, magazines, and novelties to take me to Metebelis 3 and back, I know the development history. It was there as something that could cover all markets in that time slot: kids, teens, adults. Portraying it as a kid's programme is unfair.

Fretwired · October 2018

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:
In fairness when Who was launched there was no children's drama department - I'm not sure there is one now either - it just came under drama. I saw the first episode when it was launched in the 1960s and it went out early on a Saturday evening after Grandstand - it was a family show and I recall young kids did watch it. It wasn't specifically aimed at teenagers. In fact I, and most of my friends, stopped watching when we became teenagers as we thought it childish. We were into rock music, guitars and chased girls ... far more interesting that Daleks. I got back into it with my own kids.

That's the point. As a devoted Whovian with enough books, magazines, and novelties to take me to Metebelis 3 and back, I know the development history. It was there as something that could cover all markets in that time slot: kids, teens, adults. Portraying it as a kid's programme is unfair.

We agree then although you did say the show was aimed at teenagers which wasn't the case.

MrBump · October 2018

It was good. I'm relieved to see the world didn't end in a beige fudge of political correctness as some had predicted. Bradley Walsh wasn't too awful, even.

Jodie Whittaker does remind me a little of an Aardman animated character though. In a good way.

axisus · October 2018

MrBump said:

Bradley Walsh wasn't too awful, even.

I thought he was fine from an acting perspective, certainly better than the other two 'assistants'. The only problem being people like Mrs A who refuse to think of him as anything other than a comedian.

MrBump said:
Jodie Whittaker does remind me a little of an Aardman animated character though. In a good way.

Ha ha, you're not wrong!

Heartfeltdawn · October 2018

Fretwired said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:
In fairness when Who was launched there was no children's drama department - I'm not sure there is one now either - it just came under drama. I saw the first episode when it was launched in the 1960s and it went out early on a Saturday evening after Grandstand - it was a family show and I recall young kids did watch it. It wasn't specifically aimed at teenagers. In fact I, and most of my friends, stopped watching when we became teenagers as we thought it childish. We were into rock music, guitars and chased girls ... far more interesting that Daleks. I got back into it with my own kids.

That's the point. As a devoted Whovian with enough books, magazines, and novelties to take me to Metebelis 3 and back, I know the development history. It was there as something that could cover all markets in that time slot: kids, teens, adults. Portraying it as a kid's programme is unfair.

We agree then although you did say the show was aimed at teenagers which wasn't the case.

I forgot to add the kids bit in earlier. My bad

"Who came onto the screens to cover a teenage and adult base at that particular point of the early evening schedule."

Grangousier · October 2018

Probably worth mentioning that EricTheWeary's analysis is equally true across the Trumpton Extended Universe (Trumpton, Chigley, Camberwick Green). And all the characters are white, of course. I'm not even sure that the workers at Cresswell's biscuit factory are properly unionised.

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