Slotted headstocks

lincolnblue

I have noticed more acoustics with slotted headstocks recently. Is there any tonal benefit or is it purely an aesthetic thing? I always think of nylon string guitars with them but more and more steel string instruments seen to go for them now

bertie

they're a pain in the arse to re-string......................well when you're used to standard tuners

Im pretty sure its an aesthetic thing, I think they're "ok" on smaller guitars, but for me the loss of "mass" on the headstock could mean some tonal/sustain impact  

be good to see a true side-by-side of same models with slotted/standard  - with the predicable caveat that no 2 are identical yadda yadda  - but be interesting nonetheless 

lincolnblue

bertie said:

they're a pain in the arse to re-string......................well when you're used to standard tuners

Im pretty sure its an aesthetic thing, I think they're "ok" on smaller guitars, but for me the loss of "mass" on the headstock could mean some tonal/sustain impact  

be good to see a true side-by-side of same models with slotted/standard  - with the predicable caveat that no 2 are identical yadda yadda  - but be interesting nonetheless 

I have a Taylor 710e which has the normal headstock but I know they did the same model with a slotted so I would be intrigued if someone had done a comparison. 

bertie

lincolnblue said:

bertie said:

they're a pain in the arse to re-string......................well when you're used to standard tuners

Im pretty sure its an aesthetic thing, I think they're "ok" on smaller guitars, but for me the loss of "mass" on the headstock could mean some tonal/sustain impact  

be good to see a true side-by-side of same models with slotted/standard  - with the predicable caveat that no 2 are identical yadda yadda  - but be interesting nonetheless 

I have a Taylor 710e which has the normal headstock but I know they did the same model with a slotted so I would be intrigued if someone had done a comparison. 

they're quite often an option for custom/luthier made "smaller bodied"  like Atkin/Brook/Waghorn    -   and IIRC some Gibson dreads had slotted .............................

Tannin

Some people say that you get better tone because you get a larger break angle across the nut. This is hogwash. The guitar maker is always free to angle the headstock to whatever nut break angle he or she feels is appropriate. 

The weight factor may or may not be significant, I can't comment on that. 

But I think the main reason some people think think slotted headstocks have better tone is because they very often go with 12-fret neck-body joins. Now there is absolutely no technical reason to do this. It is common simply because 12-fretters are old-fashioned, and slotted headstocks are too. So people naturally tend to lump them together. And, of course, a 12-fretter (with any headstock) sounds quite different to a standard 14-fretter for the very good reason that the bridge is in an acoustically better position. So yes, a lot of slot-heads sound great, but it has nothing at all to do with the slotted headstock, it's because they are 12-fretters.

Short summary of advantages: probably none.

Short summary of disadvantages: they are a right PITA to restring. They look ugly. Well, I think they look ugly, but I'm conditioned by decades of ownership of a slot-head 12-string. The trauma has not entirely healed. 

Very short summary: I hate the damn things. 

(I wouldn't say I'd never, ever buy another slot head, but it's one of those red-flag  items which make me unlikely to consider an instrument.)

VimFuego

yup, it's the 12 fret thing that makes slotted headstock guitars sound how they do. Personally I like the look of them, and having played fiddle for a while, the restringing doesn't bother me that much. 

bertie

I do think they "look" better on 00/0/parlor  than they do on larger sizes, and they look better on them than paddle headstocks........ they sort of "define" a parlor for me................I defo would NOT order one on a larger model tho 

VimFuego

yeah, dreads with a slotted headstock look silly. 

drofluf

I'm with @VimFuego in that I prefer the look. In fact my next guitar has a slot head and is a12 fretter.

Having restrung slot head mandolins I don't see restringing as a major challenge

ICBM

I have a slot-head 12-string, if that amuses anyone with the fun of restringing .

Actually it's no problem, if you learn how to do it the easiest way. And it's a 12-fret Dreadnought, and it doesn't look silly .

The head is also noticeably lighter than a solid one, and the break angle being steeper is not hogwash - it is. To achieve the same angle with a solid head it would need to be shaped like an angled version of a Fender headstock, with the headstock set below the line of the neck. Whether either of these things have a major effect on the tone, I'm not sure - headstock mass does, but it's relatively subtle.

Tannin

ICBM said:

, and the break angle being steeper is not hogwash

Yes it is. The guitar designer can have ANY headstock angle he or she wishes to have. 

Your Worship, I submit to the court Exhibit A, a lute. And with that I rest my case.

ICBM

Tannin said:

Yes it is. The guitar designer can have ANY headstock angle he or she wishes to have. 

Your Worship, I submit to the court Exhibit A, a lute. And with that I rest my case.

That's not the same thing. You could angle a solid headstock back further, but only so far before the strings wouldn't be able to reach the posts without binding on the front of the headstock. In fact, you will find that lutes have slotted headstocks .

The only way to have as steep a break angle with a solid head as with a slotted one is to 'step' the headstock backwards like a Fender head, so that the line of the posts is still below where the face of the head would be on a standard angled one.

Simple geometry .

VimFuego

ICBM said:

I have a slot-head 12-string, if that amuses anyone with the fun of restringing .

Actually it's no problem, if you learn how to do it the easiest way. And it's a 12-fret Dreadnought, and it doesn't look silly .

The head is also noticeably lighter than a solid one, and the break angle being steeper is not hogwash - it is. To achieve the same angle with a solid head it would need to be shaped like an angled version of a Fender headstock, with the headstock set below the line of the neck. Whether either of these things have a major effect on the tone, I'm not sure - headstock mass does, but it's relatively subtle.

well, you're its daddy, you have to love how it looks. But that sad fact is, your guitar ain't getting no dances at the prom, no matter how you dress that hog up.

ICBM

VimFuego said:

well, you're its daddy, you have to love how it looks. But that sad fact is, your guitar ain't getting no dances at the prom, no matter how you dress that hog up.

Well, I admit I like big curvy, er... guitars - but it's really quite nice looking I think .



(Not actually mine, but identical to it.)

VimFuego

actually, that doesn't look any worse than any other sort of 12 stringer. EDIT: at least it doesn't have a cutaway, can't stand the look of a cutaway on a dread. 

thermionic

Why hasn’t anyone made a 12-string acoustic with a Rickenbacker arrangement of tuners?

(Someone will probably link to a photo of such a thing now…)

ICBM

thermionic said:

Why hasn’t anyone made a 12-string acoustic with a Rickenbacker arrangement of tuners?

(Someone will probably link to a photo of such a thing now…)

Unsurprisingly, they did .



Other than that, because if anyone else used it they would get a lawyergram from Mr. Hall.

malcolmkindness

Slotted headstocks are traditional on small bodied 12 fret guitars because they have worked perfectly for centuries. They are not more difficult to restring and they are much easier to use from a playing position. I'm not sure about the break angle thing, but several well regarded players have made this claim so I'm happy to believe them.
I'm sure paddle type headstocks just became common because they are much easier and quicker to make in a factory setting.

bertie

malcolmkindness said:

 They are not more difficult to restring 

well you're 3 -1 down on that argument at the moment.   

 

Gandalph

I like the look of them but agree they look better suited to smaller bodied 12 fret guitars. I've only got one of those right now. 

Apart from the aesthetics I also like the fact that my wrist sits at a more natural angle when tuning up. 

McSwaggerty

bertie said:

malcolmkindness said:

 They are not more difficult to restring 

well you're 3 -1 down on that argument at the moment.   

 

4 -1 down now.