creaking noise from tuners on classical guitar

Supportact

I have a classical guitar (slotted headstock, plastic rollers, open gear tuners) which makes a creaking noise when tuning.

It doesn't make the noise if you detune it and just turn the pegs. It seems to happen more on the D string, but it does happen on all strings. The nut seems fine, and i did lubricate the nut just in case. Humidity is normal. 

It seems like it might be the rollers rubbing against the inside of the headstock. I've googled this and it seems like the thing to do is take it apart and put lubricant (graphite?) inside where the roller goes. Has anyone got any tips about this,  and what to use as Lubricant? 

ICBM

Chapstick.

Really!

Supportact

ICBM said:

Chapstick.

Really!

Wasn't expecting that! I'm off to raid the bathroom cabinet... 

BillDL

That's exactly what I use, but the tube I'll have to replace soon is vanilla scented Vaseline "lip therapy" with the benefit of SPF 15 sun screen 

I apply it to the cogs and worms of open gear tuners, to the ends of the barrels on classical tuners where they rub on the wood, to wood screws before I screw them in, and a host of other applications like the intonation screws on Tun-o-matic bridges.  I used to use soap or wax on wood screw threads but "chapstick" is better.  How many times have you snapped the head off the thin soft screws for tuning machines?  It's usually when you go to give them just one last nip and you hear the squeak of the screw in the tight hole just before the head sheers off.  With chapstick on the threads this is much less likely to happen, and winding in longer screws like bolt-on neck screws, screws for P90s, or screws for strap buttons is so much easier with chapstick on the threads.  Oh, and I've also used chapstick on particularly dry or rough dark wood fretboards where normal oiling still doesn't make them feel nice.  Wax on, wax off Daniel San.

Supportact

BillDL said:

That's exactly what I use, but the tube I'll have to replace soon is vanilla scented Vaseline "lip therapy" with the benefit of SPF 15 sun screen 

I apply it to the cogs and worms of open gear tuners, to the ends of the barrels on classical tuners where they rub on the wood, to wood screws before I screw them in, and a host of other applications like the intonation screws on Tun-o-matic bridges.  I used to use soap or wax on wood screw threads but "chapstick" is better.  How many times have you snapped the head off the thin soft screws for tuning machines?  It's usually when you go to give them just one last nip and you hear the squeak of the screw in the tight hole just before the head sheers off.  With chapstick on the threads this is much less likely to happen, and winding in longer screws like bolt-on neck screws, screws for P90s, or screws for strap buttons is so much easier with chapstick on the threads.  Oh, and I've also used chapstick on particularly dry or rough dark wood fretboards where normal oiling still doesn't make them feel nice.  Wax on, wax off Daniel San.

That's interesting i will definitely try these ideas. Thanks. 

DavidR

No luthier, but I was always brought up as a classical player to understand that the tuning mechanism on a classical guitar should be a dry mechanism and lubrication just attracted dust and gunk which is difficult to clean off in the long term, and so was best avoided. Classical tuners often creak in my experience. Leave alone unless it really really annoys you would be my view. The graphite you mention would be dry. Not sure I would fancy any of the other options TBH.

This response possibly a little late and therefore unhelpful! In which case apologies.

Phone a classical luthier for definitive answer?? Try Earl Marsh in Boston. Quite near if you're in Norfolk. I know Earl and he really wouldn't mind phone call. Nice chap.

PAL

I wouldn't put anything grease like as mentioned above it will attract dust and clog the gearing !
  Next time you restring use a toothbrush ( new one ) or eyelash brush and clean the gearing. Don't use WD40.
  a light machine oil may help but not too much.

ICBM

DavidR said:

No luthier, but I was always brought up as a classical player to understand that the tuning mechanism on a classical guitar should be a dry mechanism and lubrication just attracted dust and gunk which is difficult to clean off in the long term, and so was best avoided.

Unfortunately that usually causes severe wear to the little brass gears on the machineheads and leads to them needing to be replaced. You need a *small* amount of lubricant for them to work properly over the long term.

Supportact

DavidR said:

No luthier, but I was always brought up as a classical player to understand that the tuning mechanism on a classical guitar should be a dry mechanism and lubrication just attracted dust and gunk which is difficult to clean off in the long term, and so was best avoided. Classical tuners often creak in my experience. Leave alone unless it really really annoys you would be my view. The graphite you mention would be dry. Not sure I would fancy any of the other options TBH.

This response possibly a little late and therefore unhelpful! In which case apologies.

Phone a classical luthier for definitive answer?? Try Earl Marsh in Boston. Quite near if you're in Norfolk. I know Earl and he really wouldn't mind phone call. Nice chap.

I'd not heard of Earl Marsh, thanks. Looks like he makes some nice guitars. 

DavidR

Supportact said:

DavidR said:

No luthier, but I was always brought up as a classical player to understand that the tuning mechanism on a classical guitar should be a dry mechanism and lubrication just attracted dust and gunk which is difficult to clean off in the long term, and so was best avoided. Classical tuners often creak in my experience. Leave alone unless it really really annoys you would be my view. The graphite you mention would be dry. Not sure I would fancy any of the other options TBH.

This response possibly a little late and therefore unhelpful! In which case apologies.

Phone a classical luthier for definitive answer?? Try Earl Marsh in Boston. Quite near if you're in Norfolk. I know Earl and he really wouldn't mind phone call. Nice chap.

I'd not heard of Earl Marsh, thanks. Looks like he makes some nice guitars. 

Indeed he does. Very nice. Mainly classicals but acoustics, archtops, antique too if asked. I used to play in the ensemble which Earl led with a very clever musical director called Leon Edingboro before I moved away from Boston in 2020. Earl is always ready to help fellow guitarristas!

Mellish

I also hadn't heard of Earl Marsh.

This interests me as I live in Lincolnshire and will need someone to dial in my Dove when it's time

EDIT: a quick Google says he's "permanently closed"

Supportact

His website is still up though by the looks of it so might be worth a phone call. I'm  not in the market a new classical juat now as i upgraded not so long ago (got a nice Torres style) but it's good to know who is out there if i need work done. 

DavidR

I haven't spoken to him for about 18 months and so I am not absolutely up to speed with him. Good idea to give him a bell if you want to. The ensemble Facebook page says they started to get together again in Oct 2021 post-covid.

DavidR

Spoke to Supportact said:

I have a classical guitar (slotted headstock, plastic rollers, open gear tuners) which makes a creaking noise when tuning.

It doesn't make the noise if you detune it and just turn the pegs. It seems to happen more on the D string, but it does happen on all strings. The nut seems fine, and i did lubricate the nut just in case. Humidity is normal. 

It seems like it might be the rollers rubbing against the inside of the headstock. I've googled this and it seems like the thing to do is take it apart and put lubricant (graphite?) inside where the roller goes. Has anyone got any tips about this,  and what to use as Lubricant? 

See thread.

Spoke to Earl Marsh, classical luthier from Boston last night on the 'phone for a catchup and mentioned this. He said usual solution is for classical tuners is graphite powder. He was not totally averse to light oil but he did say it was a bit messy.

Supportact

DavidR said:

Spoke to Supportact said:

I have a classical guitar (slotted headstock, plastic rollers, open gear tuners) which makes a creaking noise when tuning.

It doesn't make the noise if you detune it and just turn the pegs. It seems to happen more on the D string, but it does happen on all strings. The nut seems fine, and i did lubricate the nut just in case. Humidity is normal. 

It seems like it might be the rollers rubbing against the inside of the headstock. I've googled this and it seems like the thing to do is take it apart and put lubricant (graphite?) inside where the roller goes. Has anyone got any tips about this,  and what to use as Lubricant? 

See thread.

Spoke to Earl Marsh, classical luthier from Boston last night on the 'phone for a catchup and mentioned this. He said usual solution is for classical tuners is graphite powder. He was not totally averse to light oil but he did say it was a bit messy.

Nice of you to ask him! Thanks very much. 

TheMadMick

The advice is good. As a flute player you're not supposed to lubricate the headjoint where it fits into the body. The only problem is, should it be tight, you stand a very good chance of putting the keys out of adjustment (and I'm clumsy anyway). I put a very light coat of cork grease on the interface area of the head joint and never had any problem as I kept it clean. If it gets dirty it can jam - not a good idea and could be expensive to fix.