How much playing is enough for one guitar?

Tannin

ONE -------

My cedar-top dreadnought (a custom Maton SRS-60) is not a fancy guitar. It is all-solid and a good make but from near the bottom of their range. It's the cheapest guitar I own (or maybe second-cheapest). It is more than seven years old and although I've only had it for three years it was effectively a new  guitar when I got it. It had been one of a collector's many case queens until then. For its first year under my roof it was my only guitar and got a fair bit of work. After than it was one of two, one of three .... now it is one of seven. It still gets played regularly, but obviously I play the other six too.  

Earlier this year  I went away for a month, taking just one guitar with me, which happened to be the SRS-60. So for that month it got a solid couple of hours worth of playing every day. All through that trip I found myself thinking that the SRS-60 was simply sounding magic. Why?

* Maybe I was just getting properly dialed into it instead of chopping and changing instruments all the time?

* Maybe those excellent new GHS Americana strings really were the best thing since sliced bread?

* Maybe I just didn't have others to compare it to?  

* Or maybe it was the timbers maturing with age or playing and the sound opening up?

Just the same, I was looking forward to getting home and playing a couple of my other favourites. But when I did get back ... truth be told, I was disappointed. The SRS-60 was still sounding great, but the others .... 

I knew the Messiah would be tight and need some solid playing to open it up again (it always does), but I was expecting the Cole Clark Angel to be its normal delightful self and it wasn't - not even close. The various others were not thrilling me too much either (in some cases because of particular temporary reasons, usually strings). But the humble SRS-60 carried all before it: it was simply the best sounding guitar in my collection, warm and rich, dynamic and vibrant. None of the others were half as good, and several of them had cost far more. I played it more than ever.

Over the next month or so (of course) the other guitars came back into favour. The Messiah loosened up again; putting the right strings back on the Angel resurected its tone, and so on. Before too long I was back to playing the SRS-60 about as often as most, say 15% of the time, give or take. But it still had more magic in the sound, and it still does now.

Now people say that cedar tops don't play in and open up the way that spruce tops do. Cedar (so the popular wisdom goes) sounds good new, and stays the same pretty much forever. 

Bullshit.

The cedar Maton is twice the guitar it was when I bought it. Yes, I'm better at playing it. Yes, I've learned which strings to use to make it give its best. But I have no doubt at all that it has changed. It was always sweet and mellow, but now it is richer and louder, it has a sharper edge, a more open, subtle sound - and yet it has lost none of that mellow sweetness I liked about it in the first place.

Cedar doesn't open up? Sorry, it does.

Tannin

TWO

I bought a WA May from the Maton custom shop a little while back. Now the popular wisdom is that head luthier Andy Allen, who builds all the custom shop guitars, has a gift for making guitars which sound played-in even when they are brand new. I've heard that said in various places by people I respect, and having recently spent hours playing three examples of his work before taking home the one that (by the narrowest of margins) I liked the best, had no real reason to disbelieve it. 

The WA May arrived here sounding excellent, with a mature, full-bodied voice none of my other guitars can match. But these last few weeks I've been playing it more and more, and the more I play it the better it gets and the better it gets the more I play it. Where the mellow cedar dreadnought got richer and developed a bit of edge, the big, bold, WA May has become more open and approachable. There is a sense spaciousness in its sound now; room to do more. 

Just as with the SRS-60, the right set of strings was a factor. In this case, a set of Kurt Mangan round core brought the sound out better than anything else I'd tried so far. That led to more play-time, more play-time improved the sound, and away we go. 

Just tonight I decided that these strings are starting to fade and need to be replaced. But they have done the job. Whatever I put on next (within reason) the WA May will be a better, more rounded instrument than it was a month ago. 

Andy Allen somehow makes guitars which have already opened up? Nope. Sure, they sound great new, but this one (and probably all the others) improved with playing just like any other.

Tannin

THOUGHTS

Yes Virginia, acoustic guitars really do open up and improve with age. And it happens when you play them. I am always deeply suspicious of unscientific anecdotal evidence of popular beliefs like this one,  but I've seen it for myself too consistently.

It's not just age. And it's not just total accumulated playing hours: if you leave (at least some) guitars unplayed for a month or so, they go cold. They take quite a bit of playing before they regain their former tone. My Messiah is a shocker for this. 

One more thing: in these two cases (the SRS-60 and the WA May) the change has been quite sudden and I *think* (but can't prove) that it has been brought on by sustained playing rather than just a little bit here and a little bit there.

Bloody hell, I'll be believing in those silly Tone-rite things before too long, and from there the next step is probably Scientology. 

DavidR

For what its worth (Not much probably since I've only ever had one Cedar-topped guitar) the steer with Cedar tops in the classical genre is that they certainly do 'open-up' but more quickly. If that's true of acoustics too - don't see why it shouldn't be - you won't notice the slow but definite change/improvement which occur with spruce tops. That constitutes my six 'penneth!

The change that occurs as instruments age is one of the pleasures of owning an acoustic. Its a definite thing imho, despite what some say.

And yes, I think you do get dialled in to an instrument if its the only one to hand. I keep an FG830 at our holiday home in Norfolk which I play most mornings when we're there and it definitely seems to play in over a few days. Every time. I have thought that its just saying ooh 'ello having been taken out of the case where it may have been for a few weeks and maybe acclimatising to the outside world a bit, but in fact I think its your 'dialling in' concept that's in play too to a great extent.

How much playing? A few days.

TheMadMick

I had a very similar experience with my PRS SE A40E this morning. It's a spruce top but I had thought it broken in. Not if you could have heard it this morning.

Mellish

@Tannin ; sometimes, acoustic guitars can improve with no playing.

I bought a Gibson Hummingbird. Everyone said it had poor tone, and it did. I hung it on a wall in a room where either the radio was on or I was playing other guitars - always sound of some sort.

After about 4-6 weeks (IIRC) , I took it down and it had somehow found itself the best tone I've ever heard from an acoustic.

And everyone who had heard the "before" version agreed something remarkable had happened. The idiot in me sold it. 

ICBM

Even plywood opens up with age and playing, contrary to popular/received wisdom. Just not as fast or as far as solid wood… but play a nice old plywood guitar that’s been well-used and you will not find a modern ply guitar that sounds like it.

As Mellish said, leaving an acoustic guitar in a room on a hanger or stand where it can move with humidity changes and pick up vibrations improves the sound over time. I’ve heard that dozens of times with guitars that have come into the shop having been kept in cases, then hung on the wall for a few weeks.

So yes, cedar certainly will open up with that sort of use, if it hasn’t had it before.

CavemanGrogg

When it's stating to make Willie's Trigger look like it's in good condition with a few minor dings and scratches, I'd say it's time to retire it.

Tannin

Cheers all. Interesting comments. Thanks.

TheMadMick

Had an interesting experience again this morning. My L'arrivee was quite weak in the treble but I've been playing it a lot the last couple of weeks and today it opened up, to my surprise.

Maybe the change in temperature also has an effect?

p90fool

While acoustic guitars improving with playing definitely a thing in my experience I've also had similar experiences with amps, in that I get better at opening up the nuances of them while adapting my technique microscopically to get the best from them, so I don't think you can totally remove player familiarity from the equation either. 

Funny things, ears and brains. 

CavemanGrogg

TheMadMick said:

Had an interesting experience again this morning. My L'arrivee was quite weak in the treble but I've been playing it a lot the last couple of weeks and today it opened up, to my surprise.

Maybe the change in temperature also has an effect?

There's a reason  why classical guitarists ''cuddle'' their guitars during breaks in playing, like inbetween pieces of mycis, or even passages if the break is long enough.  It keeps the guitar warm and stops it from cooling down.

Tannin

At this time of year, I wish someone would cuddle *me* during breaks! It's 2 degrees right now. Brrrr!

Mellish

Wow! I never thought it gets that low in Oz.

Saw it as warm all year. Programmes I've watched, pictures I've seen just seemed to give me that impression  

Tannin

Oh, it can get pretty cold @Mellish. Here in the Huon Valley, about 80 metres above sea level where we are so pretty low, it varies between -4 after a heavy frost (none this year so far, 1 of them last year, 3 the year before; lowest low so far this winter is -2) through to 40 in a heat wave (that's about a record high, but we are a long way south. It seldom gets as hot as that. 30-35 is more typical for a "hot" summer day. You can drive south for 30  or 40 minutes from here and after that you are swimming and it's water (or icebergs) all the way to Antarctica). Some years we get a little snow on the ground, some years we don't. We always get snow on the low hills nearby for at least a few days. Once in a while we can't drive to Hobart if the pass is too icy and they close the road. We have to wait a few hours or go round the long way which takes an extra hour.

More broadly, most of inland Australia gets down to about -4 or -5 on a cold winter night. It's a great big desert and deserts get very cold at night. The Sahara does the same thing. 

When I posted it was about 8AM. Later on it got up to 12.5 - a fine, partly sunny winter day, verging on spring, with the Silver Wattles just coming into their magnificent profusion of blossom.

Remember that name, Silver Wattle (Acacia dealbata). It is a very, very common medium tree, sometimes quite large, widespread all over Tasmania and southern Victoria into New South Wales. It is fairly fast growing, hardy, easy to work, has a pleasant though unspectacular grain, and has pretty much the same structural and acoustic qualities as Blackwood. (Or Koa.) In other words, it is as good a back and sides timber as you could ask for, and it also makes a decent top if you want something in the all-mahogany, all-Koa, all-walnut, all-Blackwood sort of tradition. Good stable neck timber too. 

One of these days, some major manufacturer is going to wake up to how much Silver Wattle there is around, and how cheap it is, and how good it is, and they are going to start using lots of it. 



^ A frosty July morning at home. Silver Wattles left and centre, various eucalypts in the background.

Mellish

Very, very interesting. Thanks mate  

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

At this time of year, I wish someone would cuddle *me* during breaks! It's 2 degrees right now. Brrrr!

Here in the UK its currently a scorching 30 degrees celsius or around the high 80s Fahrenheit in old money.

Dave_Mc

Mellish said:

Wow! I never thought it gets that low in Oz.

Saw it as warm all year. Programmes I've watched, pictures I've seen just seemed to give me that impression  

He's in Tasmania, isn't he? I've never been, but I think it has a more British/Irish type of climate- though at the same time I suspect it's a bit better, at least than Northern Ireland! Bit like the Pacific Northwest in the USA/Canada... they tend to claim they have a British-type climate, but the data suggests it's a lot better!

(Just looking at the data, Hobart has about double Northern Ireland's annual sunshine, for example, and its average high in the summer is about 3-5C higher).

Ah beaten to it, he already answered. It's been pushing 30C here at the minute too @guitarjack66 ;for the last couple of days (and went over 30C one day last month IIRC), but bear in mind that's within spitting distance of our record high (31.4C I think, and that was set last year... before that I barely remember a day above 30C in my entire life!  )

Tannin

Blimey! I've seen 40c here (though that was probably an all-time record high, 25 to at most 35 is a normal "hot" day this far south) but 46 and 47 several times on the mainland where I lived for years, and 40-odd was commonplace. Mind you, Australia is fairly mild compared to many places in the Middle-East. At least if we see 46 it's 5% humidity - their 40-something and 80% plus ... strewth!

But our climate in Oz generally and in Tasmania especially is generally reasonably mild. You are never very far from the sea in Tasmania and that makes the hot days cooler and the cold days warmer. Compare with North America where they have that dramatic climatic trumpet - with mountains on the east coast and bigger ones all down the west coast, they get everything amplified. Tornadoes and hurricanes and dreadful heat in summer, snowstorms in winter. 

I always reckon it's not the absolutes that get you, it's the variation, especially the daily variation. You can get used to anything between (say) 2 and 38 so long as you don't go from one extreme to the other too quickly. Here in Hobart, lots of people were happily wearing shorts on Thursday, with the temperature hovering around 8, climbing to 12 in the afternoon. In Brisbane, they shiver in their scarves and overcoats if it drops below 22.

Dave_Mc

LOL. Once it hits 22C here about 50% of the population (including me) looks about to melt!

I think it's supposed to be down to about 15C by Tuesday here. That's roughly the same drop in temperature as between our average summer and winter temperatures!

That shows another annoying thing about our weather- 95% of the time it's terrible, but the other 5% of the time it's actually too warm. But once that too-warm weather actually breaks, it's usually back to complete crap again. And it can stay like that for months. 

(It's usually very humid here too which makes things  a lot worse. Even 18C with high humidity can be pretty unpleasant.)

bermudianbrit

This is interesting. Its been hot here in midlands UK with high humidity and my Martin is not loving it. Sounds...just not great, for lack of a better term.